Green Day appreciation/review thread
Jun 6, 2005 at 7:51 AM Post #46 of 76

mAsh

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
For the last time, Green Day is not Punk and not Nu-Metal either
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Geez.



I know what they are I've listened to them before, I just don't know how to describe them.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 8:56 PM Post #48 of 76

Sleestack

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Personally, I don't think Green Day are particulary talented musicians. The drummer is probably the most skilled of the three, however, I wouldn't say he is exceptional by any means. They play tight live, but I would say that is a result of practice and not great musicianship. Their songs are extremely simplistic in structure and completely lacking in the intricate details that are reflected in exceptional musicianship.

That being said, I don't think people who love Green Day, do so b/c of their musicianship. I don't like thier music, but I do see why their music appeals to many people. They write catchy, simple musical arrangements and have a political and social bias with which many people (not me ) can relate.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 9:32 PM Post #49 of 76

MD1032

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I was convinced to listen to Green Day's newest album, "American Idiot" on the way home from a band trip and kept an open mind while it blasted through the bus's speaker system.

The end result? These guys aren't anything special. Like Aerosmith, they suffer from overhype when in reality none of the band members are really talented at all. Musically, it is a complete bore. My friend and I were listening for a while, then started insulting it. The fact that it's not classic rock doesn't mean it can't be good, but the fact remains that this music is so boring that it's nothing to listen to at all, and after a while we tuned it out without knowing it. The backround noise we were hearing later on, we realized, was supposed to be music:

1) Extremely predictable chord progressions. Anyone with musical talent could write this. Not only are the chord progressions dumb and predictable, they're very repetitive repetitive repetitive. Seriously, these songs may look like they're six minutes on music but in reality it's a minute of music repeated over and over again.

2) Lack of guitar solos. You must first understand that Green Day doesn't follow the rules, or heck, common sense, of music. These songs build up and build up time after time again. My friend and I were like "all right, guitar solo time!!" about 5,000 times only to be completely let down as the song builds up to... nothing. They just plunge back into their boring chord progression and lyrics. I'm guessing the guitar player lacks the talent to do a proper guitar solo, so they just don't have one. Heck, they don't have any drum solos or anything else interesting either, contributing to the boring factor.

3) Lack of variation. There's no progressiveness here at all. Don't get me wrong, though my favorite music is progressive, the majority of my music is verse/chorus (or whatever you would call this) like this. Still, most of these somgs have SOMETHING that changes to keep them interesting. There's nothing keeping these songs going. Whereas you could get bored with these songs after five "listens" as I call them, it takes that many listens before you can ever comprehend everything in other songs. There is almost nothing up and down about these songs, which means NO EARGASMS whatsoever.

4) Annoying singing. My God. Just listen to these guys. Bob Dylan's voice sucks, probably more than this dude, but at least he doesn't have that gay sing-songey scooping and overshooting sound of this guy. The lyrics are also pretty dumb. I don't care for politics in my music unless it's serious.

All in all, this music will probably please the majority of uneducated people, but for us musicians and people with knowledge of more genres and better, more complex music, this is boring.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 9:45 PM Post #50 of 76

markl

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Quote:

All in all, this music will probably please the majority of uneducated people, but for us musicians and people with knowledge of more genres and better, more complex music, this is boring.


Oh gimme a break!
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That really makes you souind like a Grade-A jack-ass.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 9:53 PM Post #51 of 76

steel102

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just wondering, what is your definition of "musicianship?" Technical skill? Ability to come up with creative/interesting songs? Both?

Because Green Day does not fit either criteria in my mind. All power chords != musicianship in my books. Neither do songs that all sound the same.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 10:52 PM Post #52 of 76

Sduibek

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Quote:

They play tight live, but I would say that is a result of practice and not great musicianship.


That's kind of a silly comment. What's the difference between practice and musicianship? Practice makes perfect. Most great musicians are great because they PRACTICED a lot. QED.

Quote:

Their songs are extremely simplistic in structure and completely lacking in the intricate details that are reflected in exceptional musicianship.


The Beatles' songs are incredibly simple many times, but they are loved by millions. Simplicity has nothing to do with how good they are technically, and how enjyoable their music is. Sometimes the best musicians make simplistic music because sometimes simple music just sounds better. Is such elitism really necessary? Your arguement is equivalent to saying that classical music is better than every other genre.
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Jun 6, 2005 at 11:00 PM Post #53 of 76

Sduibek

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MD1032
Like Aerosmith, they suffer from overhype when in reality none of the band members are really talented at all.


Dream On is a great song, lots of emotion and cool guitar licks. What's this "talent" you speak of that is so condusive of great music? It doesn't take the best musicians ever to make a decent song you know. In most countries other than the US, everyone makes music throughout their lives, and they don't b1tch and moan about their brethren having a "lack of musicianship".

As a sidenote, what music in comparison to Green Day is so vastly superior? The only difference between Green Day and other "more talented" (
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) bands is the emotion they are trying to portray. You don't need all that prog-rock elitist crap to portray the emotions Green Day is interested in. Can't speak for American Idiot, but the rest of their albums are for the most part about having fun and rocking out. Really, what's wrong with that? Lighten up.
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Jun 6, 2005 at 11:01 PM Post #54 of 76

Sduibek

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I really have to emphasize this question:

WHY DOES MUSIC HAVE TO BE COMPLEX TO BE GOOD?

Sheesh.

It's easy to judge when you're sitting around in your comfy chair at home, analyzing others and trying to figure out all the ways in which they suck. CD reviewers do this all the time. Pick apart everything with elitist cynicism. I'd like to see them play Green Day's music in a studio and press it to CD, see what it sounds like.

Have any of you actually played an instrument? I can get a big goofy smile on my face playing one hand-drum. That's music to my ears. Complexity means jack.
 
Jun 6, 2005 at 11:25 PM Post #55 of 76

steel102

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Sduibek
I really have to emphasize this question:

WHY DOES MUSIC HAVE TO BE COMPLEX TO BE GOOD?

Sheesh.

It's easy to judge when you're sitting around in your comfy chair at home, analyzing others and trying to figure out all the ways in which they suck. CD reviewers do this all the time. Pick apart everything with elitist cynicism. I'd like to see them play Green Day's music in a studio and press it to CD, see what it sounds like.

Have any of you actually played an instrument? I can get a big goofy smile on my face playing one hand-drum. That's music to my ears. Complexity means jack.




Yes, actually, I play guitar. At the moment, I am working on some Opeth songs, which could hardly be called simplistic next to Green Day. So I am not just talking out of my ass here...

I am also working on a Mayhem song and a Katatonia song. Those bands are not particularly "complex" either (in terms of guitar work...), so I agree with you that music does not necessarily have to be complicated to be good. However, Green Day (from the songs I have heard) are simplistic and repetitive to a point of stupidity. I really tried to give them a chance, as I am fairly open when it comes to music, (except American country music and 99.9% of rap) but I can't like it.
 
Jun 7, 2005 at 12:01 AM Post #56 of 76

bjjp2

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Quote:

Originally Posted by MD1032

All in all, this music will probably please the majority of uneducated people, but for us musicians and people with knowledge of more genres and better, more complex music, this is boring.



Well, scuse me, do you have any Grey Poupon?
FWIW, I'm a highly "educated," trained musician who likes rock, fusion, classical and jazz and I love Green Day. Always have. Catchy, clever songs. Good hooks. Melodies. Rockin' guitar. Great drummer.
 
Jun 7, 2005 at 12:16 AM Post #58 of 76

Aman

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Quote:

Originally Posted by markl
Oh gimme a break!
rolleyes.gif
That really makes you souind like a Grade-A jack-ass.



I think he's Grade-A right!

While you have the right to listen to whatever you like (afterall, one only listens to music because that particular music makes them happy, or makes them enjoy themselves), it is very bad to overhype a group to something they are not.

The Beatles were innovators and better musicians than Greenday. The Beatles have a synergy that Greenday will never have. And they had good singing voices. All of them. Greenday's lead singer pisses me off with every note he hits - the "accent" he has is just beyond tasteless.

The music is sophmoric and their latest album is a cheap way to target a VERY large mainstream audience.

And no, their drummer IS NOT good. Being a drummer for almost thirteen years, I know a thing or two about drummers and their chops, and this guy has none. That opening from "Holiday" didn't even sound in time to me at some parts. The fact that he's playing fast triplets will not save him. He is not a good drummer. His work is simple but NOT discrete (Ringo Starr, for example, invented MANY of the fills people use today and the listener could destinguish every cymbal tap he made because each time it was different, and it was done on purpose - Greenday's drummer will NEVER reach this level ... all he does is ride his crash cymbal as if the Germans were coming back to invade us).

The only thing that saves them is their eye-liner and good-looks.
 
Jun 7, 2005 at 12:34 AM Post #59 of 76

Alu

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They don't look that good to me.
tongue.gif


Oh this is so off-topic, but ever heard of drummers Ed Warby or Danny Carey? Quite normal that someone like me would mention Carey, but he's just so brilliant.

Also Joey Jordison is a real talent...but not only does he play the drums, which he doesn't do all too bad, he also plays guitar, bass and whatnot. He recorded a whole Album (Murderdolls) by himself! He even wrote the lyrics (shouldn't be taken all too seriously). Only thing he didn't do was sing, what a guy.

But those are only three out of lots of other drummers...and I yet have to hear Portnoy or whatever his name was.

I never did listen to any Green Day albums before American Idiot critically, but there was one song that I kind of liked, not anymore though. It was called "Warning" and the video clip they made was quite good as well.
 
Jun 7, 2005 at 1:47 AM Post #60 of 76

acs236

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There's no relationship between complexity and "good" in my book. I listen mainly to prog rock and even that genre has its range of complexity. Two of my favorites are Yes and Genesis. In most respects, Yes's music is generally more complex than Genesis; Yes is undoubtedly composed of superior musicians -- still, I can't say that Yes is superior to Genesis or even that I like Yes better. Same for, say, various classical music -- Beethoven is simple compared to some others no doubt.

To over simplify, albeit in an abstract way, perhaps there is ethereal asthetic quality that certain music possesses. It is why even more simple music can have a profound emotional effect and while even some of the most technical, proficient, complicated music can have no emotion effect whatsoever.

If you want to criticize Green Day -- fine. However, I think they involved into a tight band, for what they do and their music writing is superb. While they use simple or common chord progressions, the end result, in my opinion, is some very fine music.
 

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