[domer2004]

I know a lot of you probably don't like rap. I agree that it probably takes less talent than many other genres of music. Anyone that tries to argue to me how rap is some eloquent art form is usually treated to a hardy laugh my yours truly. However, I do think if is fun to listen to, and I know that U2 and Bob Dylan can never rap as fast as Busta Rhymes either

This will be my first installment in Rap 101: What is good rap, and what is not.

Today there will be no serious lecture. I just wanted to see what rap fans out there think the top 5 rap albums of all time are. My list (in no particular order):

The Notorious B.I.G.: Ready to Die

Nas: Illmatic

Public Enemy: Fear of a Black Planet

Eminem: Marshall Mathers LP

Eric B. and Rakim: Paid In Full

I know a lot of other ppl will disagree with those 5, but that is why I am asking for opinions

Also, I wanna recommend listening to DMX: The Great Depression. The bass on track 4 is incredible. If you have good phones and a good amp, you should be blown away

Brett

 

[dhwilkin]

They aren't pure rap, but the Beastie Boys rule!

 

[MacDEF]

I listen to classical and jazz quite a bit, but I'll admit to being a fan of *good* rap. I've been listening to rap since the late 70s/early 80s. Unfortunately, a) most rap today stinks; and b) most people don't really know much about rap or the history of rap, and instead base their opinions of rap on the crap they hear on the radio.

I think that just as there is good and bad pop, good and bad rock, good and bad classical, good and bad jazz, and bad country (joke), there is good rap and bad rap. Rap can be a very eloquent form of expression, and good rap can tell a story or explain an idea as well as any other form of poetry or music.

Then there is the art of verbal improvisation. I remember early "freestyle" rappers who could create a story, on the spot, in rhymes. That was an amazing talent that many other artists don't have. It's like the great jazz artists jamming, only with words.

Out of your list, I'd only include the Public Enemy and Eric B and Rakim albums as "good" rap, but that's just my personal opinion. I have a thing against "gansta" and "biatch" rap. To me, the early hardcore rap that concentrated more on the politics and experiences of what it's like to be black in the U.S. was "gangster" rap that actually said something, rather than today's gansta rap that talks about mo' money, bitches and hos, and cappin' fools.

To me, things like Puff Daddy, 90's "gansta," etc. are the rap equivalents of Hanson and Britney Spears: over-produced, no-content fluff designed to sell to the lowest common denominator; maybe a good beat and "fun" if you like the style, but nothing that wouldn't be missed.

The best rap IMO had a message or told a good story. Early stuff like "The Message," to artists from the 80s like Public Enemy, to 90s artists like Arrested Development -- those were some of the best rap. Even rappers like Paris, with whom I didn't necessarily agree all of the time, have my respect because he had a concrete message based in historical understanding.

While it's true that there is some rap I enjoy just for the music (A Tribe Called Quest, for example), I'll admit that I'm a bit harsh on the genre -- it's probably unfair for me to say "rap has to have a good message to be good" when I don't apply that standard to rock and pop. But I guess the difference is that in rap, the emphasis in usually on the lyrics. So if the lyrics don't move me, the music has to be pretty incredible, and few rap artists or producers are that good on the music side (especially in today's rap market).

 

[Raymond Kim]

Quote:

I have a thing against "gansta" and "biatch" rap. To me, the early hardcore rap that concentrated more on the politics and experiences of what it's like to be black in the U.S. was "gangster" rap that actually said something, rather than today's gansta rap that talks about mo' money, bitches and hos, and cappin' fools.

LOL!

 

[DarkAngel]

I HATE RAP!

But if I owned only 3 Cds it would be:
* NWA - Straight outa Compton (this **** is dope! Cube is pissed!)
* 2 Live Crew - nasty as they want to be (my favorite rap Cd)

Songs like "me so horny" and "***** shop" are classics!

* Beasties - Liscensed to Ill (rock rap, all downhill from here)

 

[jaghouse]

most rap does blow... but there are some good groups:

Tribe Called Quest
Common
Dilated Peoples
Roots
Public Enemy
Outkast
Snoop
Digable Planets

 

[massappeal85]

I'll just put a grade for all the hip hop albums I got (which ain't alot, and really isn't a big percentage of the amount I listen to on radio and MP3s). I've just recently discoverd the joy in collecting CDs.

In order of how they were randomely placed in my cd book:

M.O.P. - Warriorz: B+

KRS-One - Strictly for da breakdancers and emceez (instrumentals not having much to do with KRS really, but still good): B-

Public Enemy - Fear of a black planet: A--

KRS-One - I got next: A

Gangstarr - Full Clip (greatest hits): A

Cypress Hill - Self titled (first album): B++

Cypress Hill - Black Sunday: A-

KRS-One - Return of the boom bap: B+

Cypress Hill - Temples of boom: A--

Rakim - The Master: D (seriously, there are 2 rediculously good songs, and the rest is crap)

Wu Tang - 36 Chambers: A+ (NICE!)

Method Man - Tical 2000: B-

Common - Like watter for chocolate: A-

DAS EFX - Sewaside: B-- (the beats are kinda cheesy, and the styles can get extremely redundant. only in small portions please!)

KRS-One - Self titled ('96): A-

Eric B and Rakim - Paid in Full: A- (its a little too old school for my liking)

Jeru the Damaja - Wrath of the Math: B+

Public Enemy - It takes a nation of millions to hold us back: A++ (Probably the first rap group I ever REALLY got into, i'm a say that I listened to a good porton of this album on MP3 for the longest ass time before I got the CD, which by then I was sick of 80% of the album).

The Pharcyde - Bizzare ride II the pharcyde: A

Rawkus Presents Soundbombing II (compilation/sampler/whatever the **** you can call it): A+ (this record will show you just how amazing hip hop can be if you try and look in the right places)

Soundbombing I: A+ (IIs better)

BDP - Live Hardcore Worldwide - A (live album. Not many tracks really stand out on their own, but listening to the album front to back is quite an expierience).

Lyricists Lounge II: A-- (some of the songs REALLY suck, the rest go from good to very good).

Wu Tang - The W: A-- (alot of people don't like it, I had no problem with it)

Lyricists Lounge I: A

Dr. Octagon: A-

Lost Boyz - Legal Drug Money: A and a half plus

Gangstarr - Moment of Truth: A+ (supposedly their best album)

Mos Def - Black on both sides: A and a half plus

Independents finest I: A and a half plus (a GREAT car or party compilation for those underground adept)

Before I was really into hip hop, I was turned off by alot of the explicit stuff too and was strictly oldschool for awhile. However, I appreciate the intentions or the amount of honesty in a lyric instead of what it is they are actually saying, especcially when I consider that consiousness in hip hop was a gimmick once like how gangsta is today. Sugar Hill Gang was more about fun and positivity, but to compare them to Notorious B.I.G. who in a song goes around killing and robbing people, its no question who I respect more and I still think Biggie is one of the if not greatest MC/rappers ever. I think what makes PART of an MCs greatness is what he does as an MC too. This is why I always contend that KRS-One is a better rapper then Rakim. As far as skillz are concerned, Chuck D would get raped by Eminem lyrically, but Chuck D will for the most part always be on a higher pedistool then Em.

PEACE!!!

 

[eastsidemetalhd]

personal favourites:

Method Man & Redman - Blackout!

Cypress Hill - III (Temple Of Boom)

anything by EPMD

selected tracks by NWA (love 'em, but you gotta admit that they've got lots of filler tracks)

Wu-Tang - Wu-Tang Forever

anything by Boogie Down Productions

... am not a big fan of the newer stuff out. seems like most 'rappers' these days put out r&b records instead of rap records. 2-3 verses, and the female-vocaled chorus that goes on forever. it may be great to dance to, but give me lyrical skillz anyday.

 

[BenG]

OutKast is the best "pop" rap group now - very original production and sound without alot of crapy singing hooks or psuedo-thug bs.

De La Soul is the most intelligent rap group ever imo.

 

[neil]

Public Enemy has got to be my favorite rap group. The stuff is pretty raw -- the mixes are sweet, the looping and sampling is hot, and Chuck D's voice could knock over a brick wall. Albums I recommend are It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back and Fear of a Black Planet.

Another hip-hop group I enjoy is Massive Attack. They do a lot of work with outside artists that guest appear on song as singers, but their core group stuff with rap is pretty smooth. Some might categorize them as rap trip-hop because their background beats and sounds on some of their tracks is pretty laid back, but they've definitely got some soul. Album I recommend is definitely Mezzanine.

 

[MacDEF]

Quote:

Another hip-hop group I enjoy is Massive Attack.

Hip-hop? That's the first time I ever heard them classified as such, Neil. Most people consider them "electronica." But I agree, they have some great albums, and Mezzanine is the best.

 

[dhwilkin]

Quote:

neil said... Some might categorize them as rap trip-hop because their background beats and sounds on some of their tracks is pretty laid back, but they've definitely got some soul.

Trip-hop is indeed the category I would put Massive Attack in. Never thought of them as hip-hop (or electronica, for that matter).

 

[domer2004]

wow, i am glad that ppl are actually taking this thread seriously. I was afraid that I would get a cynical response from an audiophile site. I am proud of y'all

Anyhow, that list of 5 was just the best of what I had been listening to lately. I do not claim to know EVERYTHING about old school rap. I really love KRS-ONE, but I am not talking about the best MC's of all time. I am talking about the total package. Outkast's Stankonia could probably replace Eminem. I am just in awe of his skill. He is ridiculous. Listen to Dead Wrong with Notorious B.I.G. and Eminem on Biggie's "Born Again" album. He blew up the mic on that one... I forgot who listed 2 Live Crew's album, but I laugh at that one. They are so cool, but only because they shocked the hell out of the Nation. They are daring, but can't you say ***** 1,000 times and record it too?

Brett

 

[jlo mein]

ya i agree that dilated peoples has some really good stuff, especially their older album, the Platform. Their new one, The Expansion Team, is just ok.

 

[chadbang]

One word says it for me:
[size=small]The[/size] [size=x-large]Flav! [/size]

Seriously, every PE album has something to offer. Just great!