[BigAmish]

Hello everyone,

I just purchased my first set of quality headphones (SR-80s) a couple of weeks ago & have been re-listening to my CD collection in absolute bliss. I love the Grado sound and am happy to report that I have had none of the bad experiences that some Grado critics have reported (such as poor comfort & painfully excessive brightness). I plan on sticking with these cans for a while, but I am hungrily eyeing some SR-225s as a future (and hopefully terminal) upgrade in a year or so. Bang/buck ratios are very important to me, as you can gather from my signature.

However, in process of revisiting my CD collection I had one of those 'pants-soiling' sonic experiences that went beyond a simple upgrade to quality headphones. I recently began purchasing SACDs (I currently have 7) to enjoy 5.1 sound through my budget home theater system. I figured that other than slight increases in sonic quality, that was the main draw of SACD. However, just for fun, I popped in my SACD of "The Rise & Fall of Ziggy Stardust & the Spiders from Mars (David Bowie)" and listened to the 2 channel SACD mix through my SR-80s. Oh. My. God. The sonic quality of the recording absolutely floored me...everything sounded more natural, detailed, & 'unrestrained' particularly at the high & low ends of the sonic spectrum. Just to make sure that I wasn't hearing things, I A-B compared the CD mix with the 2 channel SACD mix off of the same hybrid disc & the differences were clear. I compared the rest of my SACDs & there were similar positive differences, although the differences varied depending on the amount of effort that was put into making the SACD track mix. Keep in mind, that my home system is not high-end by most measures (see my signature below).

Anyhow, after changing my pants & gathering my thoughts I got to thinking...if this difference is so noticeable to me (and I do not claim to have 'golden ears') why isn't there more buzz about SACDs (or DVD-As) among the Grado users? It seems like the benefits of SACD clarity lend themselves well to the ability of Grados to express sonic detail, but there are relatively few headphone-specific discussions about SACD experiences in general on the head-fi.org site. I'm just surprised that more people aren't commenting on what is, to me, a clear improvement in sound quality through headphones.

Has anyone else in the headphone/Grado community had SACD experiences similar to mine? Needless to say, I will be going out of my way to collect SACD recordings of my favorite artists from this point forward.

Any thoughts?

 

[slwiser]

Sometime in the future A/B your SACD two channel stereo mix with the same recording using a standard CD. Or A/B the standard CD with your CD mix on your SACD disk. There has been some discussions around the net that the CD mix on SACDs have been bit truncated to enhance the differences between the SACD mix and the CD mix on the SACD disk. I am not saying that this is the case, but this has been discussed elsewhere around the net as being a possibility.

Everything that I said above aside; SACDs and DVD-As with proper mixing sound really great on our headphones. I have about 20-30 DVD-As that have various quality levels that are quite apparent.

How are you listening to your SACDs. In other words, what is the signal train you are using to get it to the headphones.

The Oppo also downsamples SACD and DVD-A that are protected to 48 kHz. I don't know the bit depth of that downsampling. I sounds better than regular CDs that have 16 bit so it may continue to have a 24 bit depth. This last may be totally incorrect in that it continues to have a 24 bit depth for a SACD. SACD is 1 bit deep and at 2.8 mHz I think. So it may be converted to have a bit depth of 24 bits as opposed to only 16 bits. Note that regular CDs are 44.1 kHz/16 bits deep. The calculation for how detailed each is, is to multiply 44.1 kHz x 16 bits for 705,666 per channel; 96 kHz x 24 bits for 2,30,000 per channel and for SACD, 1 bit x 2,800,000 for 2,800,000 data bits. For SACD I am not sure if that is per channel or for the total stream, I am thinking it is for the stream. All this is per second.

If you want to hear some non downsampled music get some disks from www.AixRecords.com . These are DVD-As with a stereo mix at 96/24 and your Oppo will do wonders for you. I have a few disks from AIX and they are very good. Some of them are considered to be the best hi-rez disks around.

 

[Fafner]

Good recorded SACDs sound awesome in my setup...

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sometime in the future A/B your SACD two channel stereo mix with the same recording using a standard CD. Or A/B the standard CD with your CD mix on your SACD disk. There has been some discussions around the net that the CD mix on SACDs have been bit truncated to enhance the differences between the SACD mix and the CD mix on the SACD disk. I am not saying that this is the case, but this has been discussed elsewhere around the net as being a possibility.

Interesting. I have a couple of old-school Moody Blues titles in both formats...I'll give them an A-B comparison & get back to you.


Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif How are you listening to your SACDs. In other words, what is the signal train you are using to get it to the headphones.

Pretty basic signal train: Oppo970HD > Onkyo HT-R500 (5.1 Home Theater Receiver/Amp) > SR-80s

 

[slwiser]

^Note that I edited my earlier post with more updated information.

 

[tom b]

Glad to hear you are enjoying your new purchase, I do wish to make a comment on what you said though......you were looking to upgrade to the 225 as the final upgrade.

Dont count on that happeing if the hobby runs its course with you as it does with most the closest thing you get to a terminal purchase would be the GS1000 or RS1, but that will only be the case then they'll come out with a new model and you'll just have to see (hear) what it can do....

I honestly dont think there is ever an end in sight! So start saving your pennies for the next purchase .

Enjoy.

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom b /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad to hear you are enjoying your new purchase, I do wish to make a comment on what you said though......you were looking to upgrade to the 225 as the final upgrade. Dont count on that happeing if the hobby runs its course with you as it does with most the closest thing you get to a terminal purchase would be the GS1000 or RS1, but that will only be the case then they'll come out with a new model and you'll just have to see (hear) what it can do.... I honestly dont think there is ever an end in sight! So start saving your pennies for the next purchase . Enjoy.

My experience here as well. I thought the ATH-A900LTDs wonderful, then I got the ATH-W5000s which I thought were the end of the trail. Then I got the Ultrasone Edition 9s.......Well now I am wondering if there is ever an end to this trail. One just has to decide where that is for themselves.

 

[GlendaleViper]

Completely agree. A well done SACD through good headphones is a fantastic experience. It's just a shame that there aren't more Rock SACDs available. If I wasn't so big on Classic Rock I'd literally have no reason to own a SACD player. The Steve Hoffman CCR remasters (SACD and vinyl) are very, very highly recommended. Future Days by Can is also very enjoyable.

Now, for a little bit of soothsaying...

These are in your future:

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tom b /img/forum/go_quote.gif Glad to hear you are enjoying your new purchase, I do wish to make a comment on what you said though......you were looking to upgrade to the 225 as the final upgrade. Dont count on that happeing if the hobby runs its course with you as it does with most the closest thing you get to a terminal purchase would be the GS1000 or RS1, but that will only be the case then they'll come out with a new model and you'll just have to see (hear) what it can do....

Quote:

Originally Posted by slwiser /img/forum/go_quote.gif My experience here as well. I thought the ATH-A900LTDs wonderful, then I got the ATH-W5000s which I thought were the end of the trail. Then I got the Ultrasone Edition 9s.......Well now I am wondering if there is ever an end to this trail. One just has to decide where that is for themselves.

Yeah, I realize that my stated end product of a SR-225 may be a bit of a pipe dream based on the experiences of others in the forum (particularly in some of the more recent threads). Thankfully, the wife-approval factor should keep me in check until she finishes nursing school in a couple of years. Once that happens...who knows!

Thankfully, I am VERY satisfied with my SR-80s so far. If I get bored with them later on I will hopefully be able to sell them & upgrade somewhat incrementally. Although this may not be the most cost-efficient way of progressing, baby-step upgrades have a better chance of preserving my long term health/marital bliss.

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif Completely agree. A well done SACD through good headphones is a fantastic experience. It's just a shame that there aren't more Rock SACDs available. If I wasn't so big on Classic Rock I'd literally have no reason to own a SACD player. The Steve Hoffman CCR remasters (SACD and vinyl) are very, very highly recommended. Future Days by Can is also very enjoyable. Now, for a little bit of soothsaying... These are in your future:

If I ever get to this point in my newfound hobby, I will truly be a dead man. Unless I win the lottery.

Curse you head-fi!

 

[slwiser]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigAmish /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I ever get to this point in my newfound hobby, I will truly be a dead man. Unless I win the lottery. Curse you head-fi!

Just take you time and enjoy the music you have. Your ears/brain needs to have some learning experience along the way. I had my Grado SR-80/Senn 495s (2001) four years before venturing out into other headphones. My journey took me to the DT880s with cardas cables, then the ATH-W1000, moved on to the ATH-A900TLDs then the W5000s, and now the Edition 9s as far as upgrades go. There was a test of the S-Logic sound with the Proline 2500s before the Edition 9s, which I still have. I also experimented with my portable setup attempting to get it about where I want it. I am using the ATH-ANC7s which have a sound profile much like the W5000s but of course it does not have the same quality sound, but still very nice for a portable. Along this trek came the source side and amp side of things. From the step away from the SR-80 till today has been from May 2005 till May 2007.

Now if I win the lottery, a second UE9s would come and probably a Sony R10 but I am not holding my breath.

 

[Bwanasonic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's just a shame that there aren't more Rock SACDs available. If I wasn't so big on Classic Rock I'd literally have no reason to own a SACD player. The Steve Hoffman CCR remasters (SACD and vinyl) are very, very highly recommended. Future Days by Can is also very enjoyable.

Two friends of mine are continually singing the praises of SACD, but the lack of a contemporary rock catalog has made it less than a priority for me. I'm of the classic rock generation, but I don't spend that much of my listening time reliving my 70's glory days. Future Days is one of my favorite recordings though, so I'll be sure to pick that up in the event that I get a SACD player to shut my friends up. My wife however, is under strict orders to shoot to kill if she ever finds me listening to Dark Side Of The Moon or Led Zeppelin.

Kerry M

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlendaleViper /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's just a shame that there aren't more Rock SACDs available. If I wasn't so big on Classic Rock I'd literally have no reason to own a SACD player.

I know what you mean. I have an unrealistic hope that since the Playstation 3 is capable of playing SACDs, the format will get more exposure & more SACD rock music will be released due to increased demand. I'm not holding my breath however.

Also, any input on the sonic differences between the RS-1 & SR-225? One can always dream.

 

[BigAmish]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bwanasonic /img/forum/go_quote.gif My wife however, is under strict orders to shoot to kill if she ever finds me listening to Dark Side Of The Moon or Led Zeppelin.

A shame as Dark Side of the Moon is considered one of the more outstanding SACD classic rock releases. Be sure to keep your head down!

 

[Thelonious Monk]

comparing sacd to redbook with hybrid disks is not suggested. i have heard that the redbook layer is tinkered with to sound bad. i can only come up with one link off the top of my head.