Grados and Denons
May 6, 2009 at 1:51 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 21

Timothy.Wong

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Hi,


I am still thinking of buying a set of headphones and after considering of buying Grados, i hear that the Denon Headphones are actually quite decent in sound quality as well. I listen to every genre of music. So can someone please explain to me the difference in sound of the Grados and Denons and which brand they prefer?


Thank you!
 
May 6, 2009 at 2:24 PM Post #4 of 21
Do you seriously listen to every genre? Narrow it down and prioritize which genres are most important to you. Your listening choices and priorities will affect what people will recommend. Otherwise you are going to get a mish-mash of recommendations based on what other people listen to.

Neither the Grados nor Denons work for all genres. Each are best in different areas.

old school heavy metal and hard rock?
modern metal?
jam bands and folksy rock?
hip-hop?
electronica?
pop?
jazz?
bluegrass?
blues?
choral?
full symphonic classical?
small ensemble classical?
opera?
pipe organ?
other?
 
May 6, 2009 at 2:29 PM Post #5 of 21
I listen more to Rock, Pop, Techno, and Classical...are there any suggestions?
 
May 6, 2009 at 2:41 PM Post #6 of 21
The Grados will be great for Rock, Pop and even Techno -- they excel at gritty rock guitars! They are OK with classical and other genres.

Denons and Sennheisers will do better with classical because they will provide a wider soundstage than Grados (pretty close-up and direct) and are smoother sounding (esp. Senn.) Of all the Denons, I have only heard the D1001 and they are pretty good, but the bass seemed a bit loose to me. Senn. are not as good with Rock and techno because they tend to be smooth and slow, but they will pass if classical, jazz, ambient, even trance and house stuff are your main thing

Grados take some time to adjust to their style and fit -- if you get the bowls, they need to be hand-washed with shampoo and conditioner so they don't iritate you ear and skin. But the sound is amazingly clear and direct.

IMO & YMMV!
 
May 6, 2009 at 3:05 PM Post #7 of 21
The Denon D2000 has a bit of a recessed midrange that can cause the vocals in some rock songs to sound distant. It is something that is very noticeable on some songs, mildly noticeable on others, and a non-issue on others. I found it to be mostly an issue for harder rock. For example, some Sammy Hagar songs have distant vocals, same with some Scorpions songs. U2 songs I've listened to are fine. When you hit a song that has a distant vocal (or distant lead guitar) it sucks the song right out of your ears, the song loses what is needed to make it fun to listen to.

I would find it hard to recommend the D2000 for aggressive rock if it is your only good headphone. You'll run into music that sucks with the distant vocals and you'll be unhappy. The Denon is very nice with jam bands, folksy rock, jazz, bluegrass, and similar. The Denon also does well with classical but I still prefer my Sennheisers over the Denon for classical.

The SR series Grados are great for rock music. Vocals and guitars are always out front where they should be. Lots of what is needed to make you rock and get into the music. If the rock and pop is your priority then Grado is it.

The Grados will have a more "in your head" kind of sound and have a sound that is more fatiguing for long listening sessions compared to the Denon D2000.

I have never listened to the D1001. I have no idea how much it fits the sound of the D2000.
 
May 6, 2009 at 3:39 PM Post #9 of 21
Every genre, huh? Get the Alessandro MS-1. They handle any genre.
beerchug.gif
 
May 7, 2009 at 4:07 AM Post #11 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Denon D2000 has a bit of a recessed midrange that can cause the vocals in some rock songs to sound distant. It is something that is very noticeable on some songs, mildly noticeable on others, and a non-issue on others. I found it to be mostly an issue for harder rock. For example, some Sammy Hagar songs have distant vocals, same with some Scorpions songs. U2 songs I've listened to are fine. When you hit a song that has a distant vocal (or distant lead guitar) it sucks the song right out of your ears, the song loses what is needed to make it fun to listen to.

I would find it hard to recommend the D2000 for aggressive rock if it is your only good headphone. You'll run into music that sucks with the distant vocals and you'll be unhappy. The Denon is very nice with jam bands, folksy rock, jazz, bluegrass, and similar. The Denon also does well with classical but I still prefer my Sennheisers over the Denon for classical.

The SR series Grados are great for rock music. Vocals and guitars are always out front where they should be. Lots of what is needed to make you rock and get into the music. If the rock and pop is your priority then Grado is it.

The Grados will have a more "in your head" kind of sound and have a sound that is more fatiguing for long listening sessions compared to the Denon D2000.

I have never listened to the D1001. I have no idea how much it fits the sound of the D2000.



Please listen to Mr. Ham Sandwich. I would only add that my Denon AH-D2000 handles hip hop and funk better for me than my SR 125, due to the more prominent bass. Can't speak to any other Grados. Still, I definitely listen to hip hop on my Grados.
 
May 12, 2009 at 3:49 PM Post #12 of 21
Yes, narrowing it down to certain models would help. That being said...in my own personal experience, there is no comparison between the SR325i's and the D2000's. With the SR325i's, you are missing a good portion of detail in the music. Listen to the first minute of "Maria, Maria" by Santana and you will hear sounds on the D2000 that simply do not get reproduced by the SR325i's. It's not a personal preference thing, it's something that is clearly missing. I thought it was due to my tube amp, but it is the same on the ibasso D3 and from my laptop headphone output. In the end, I feel it is due to the closed design of the D2000 vs. the open design of the SR325i's.
 
May 12, 2009 at 5:09 PM Post #13 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by tke398 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Yes, narrowing it down to certain models would help. That being said...in my own personal experience, there is no comparison between the SR325i's and the D2000's. With the SR325i's, you are missing a good portion of detail in the music. Listen to the first minute of "Maria, Maria" by Santana and you will hear sounds on the D2000 that simply do not get reproduced by the SR325i's. It's not a personal preference thing, it's something that is clearly missing. I thought it was due to my tube amp, but it is the same on the ibasso D3 and from my laptop headphone output. In the end, I feel it is due to the closed design of the D2000 vs. the open design of the SR325i's.


How exactly does being closed lend itself to providing more detail?
 
May 12, 2009 at 5:33 PM Post #14 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by tke398 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
With the SR325i's, you are missing a good portion of detail in the music. Listen to the first minute of "Maria, Maria" by Santana and you will hear sounds on the D2000 that simply do not get reproduced by the SR325i's.


Those are bass sounds. Yes, the D2000 does go much lower with authority than the Grados or even the HD600. There can be entire low bass lines going on that you will hear with the D2000 that will be missed with the Grados.

But there is more to detail than just low bass. Detail in midrage and treble is also important and there the Grados will shine. And the bass in the D2000 isn't exactly a detailed bass. It is in the slow and sloppy category, but at least it is there and easily heard.
 
May 12, 2009 at 5:37 PM Post #15 of 21
I think before everybody jumps the gun here, the biggest question is which headphones from within the two lines are you looking at?

I'm guessing you're looking at each Brand's entry level headphone, which would be the SR60i and the D1001. I happen to own both of those headphones, so I'll point out the differences.

The most easily noticeable difference is the amount of bass. The D1001 has a LOT of bass for a low impedence headphone. Some call it bloated and out of control, and while I think that may be the case, its not like its BOSE bass that just runs all over everything either. It's quite punchy bass. It lends itself to a much fuller sound that Grados have. This full sound is what I think some people mean when they say its bloated, but in my opinion the full bass doesn't "get in the way" of the midrange, it provides a strong foundation for the midrange and hi frequencies to sit upon.

The next most easily noted aspect is that the Grados are a lot more "upfront" than the Denons. The Denons are a pretty "upfront" headphone, but Grados are probably the most upfront headphone of any major brand. With Grados you feel like you are sitting on the stage. Some people like this, some people say it destroys soundstage nuance. This isn't to say that D1001's have a better soundstage. They don't. Neither headphone has much soundstage to speak of. Things sound like they are either coming from the right, the left or some point in your head in between.

Both headphones have an upper mids peak. That is, with both headphones there is a discernable emphasis on the upper ranges of the normal vocal range. These are the so-called "presence" frequencies. This is why both headphones sound so upfront. The Grados emphasis sits squarely on the presence frequencies, while denons are a little bit higher up with their emphasis (they actually lie in teh presence frequencies of the violin, which is why violins tend to just jump out of your headphone on D1001s).

Grados have a lot quicker drivers than the Denons. This means that really fast passages retain their definition much more easily than with the Denons, which tend to turn into mush with really fast guitar passages. This also has to do with the Grados being completely open and having virtually no reverberation issues. While the Denons seem to have non-major, but discernable issues with cup reverberation.

While I think Grado discomfort is way overhyped, D1001s are certainly significantly more comfortable. The Grados will likely have to be stretched out some so that they are just tight enough that they stay on your head, but no tighter. This helps with comfort, but also helps with sound, as it puts the drivers in the position relative to your ears where they are supposed to be. Denons are also signficantly more portable, due to the fact that they are smaller, clamp on your head without being uncomfortable, have a shorter cord and dont get twist issues like Grados do (since grado cups can swivel around freely when not on your head). You also don't have to worry about things getting into the back of the driver with Denons, since they are closed. With grados you have to be careful that dirt, hair, water, etc aren't going in through the back and messing up the driver.

In summation there are just a couple of main concerns and differences between these headphones:

1) if you are a "basshead" just get the Denons.

2) If you are all about hearing detail in blistering guitar solos or really like to feel like you are sitting on the stage with the band, get the Grados

3) If these will be mostly for on the go, get the Denons

4) If you can't deal with even the smallest amount of discomfort, get the denons.

5) Hip-hop and R&B should probably favor the D1001

6) Classic rock and metal should probably favor Grados.

That's all I have, and again, this doesn't apply if you are looking at SR225's v. D2000's or RS-1's V. D7000's
 

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