[anwaypasible]

hi..
first of all

i have some grado sr60's and i am seeking to put the finishing touches on these headphones by exploring what i can do to make my headphone's run at full potential.


i have an xpsound pre-amp (with headphone amplifier built-in) that i use with a shure es(sum'n sum'n) calibration mic that i use to calibrate my 5.1 setup (and i will be using the same setup to calibrate my car audio sound system in the future with a laptop and the help of truerta)
the xpsound claims to put out 11 milliwatts:

XP201 Specifications

These test were made using 'Right Mark' audio analyzer software and the new 24bit/192kHz Waveterminal 192X PCI audio card from ESI.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Line level frequency response: 4Hz - 44kHz +/- 0.1dB
- RIAA frequency response: 20Hz - 20kHz +/- 0.5dB
- Headphone Level: @550-ohm 21 milliwatts, @32-ohm 11 milliwatts


the sound from the grado sr60's while using the xpsound is noticeably louder (slightly) and more refined (a bit).

i am searching for the thermal specifications for my headphones, because i think this xpsound headphone amp has only nudged the 'more-refined' sound that is capable from amplifying higher-quality headphones.
and i am comparing the sound of the grados between using the xpsound and again using the internal laptop's headphone-out output.
the laptop is like 7 years old and uses (what i think) is an AD1886A: AC’97 SoundMAX® Codec from analog devices.
i have no idea what the electrical output level is on this laptop.. but it isnt a whole bunch less than the xpsound.

i have two other options to power these grado's.. my big computer (that is in storage at the moment) and my home audio receiver (that is also in storage at the moment)
i'd like to feed these grados with the most unclipped power that they can handle (and then turn them down if necessary)
so does anybody know the thermal spec's of the coils??


QUESTION NUMBER TWO:
i am using the xpsound for now (and even with the laptop's output) i am experiencing ear fatigue in the upper treble area's.. and i dont know if that fatigue is causing a lack of detail in the midrange area (or if i need to bump the equalizer up).
does anybody have a calibrated frequency response on their equalizer for the grado sr60's ?
if so, can i get your EQ settings for reference.
i've got a severe 'aluminum' problem and i lowered the 'average ear canal resonance frequency of 7400hz and the fatigue took one step in the right direction, but there are other sliders that are needing adjustment.

i really dont want to use truerta on this laptop's 16bit analog to digital chip with a crumby 87dB (89?) range

i have been trying to blame the 16bit audio of this laptop as a culprit of the 'tin' sound.. but i havent pulled my big computer out of storage to compare.

if i had it my way.. i'd put an oscilliscope to the laptop's output and find its maximum before clipping.. then i'd find the xpsounds maximum before clipping and seek the equalizer to drop the peaks first (quick double check to see if there is any clipping) then add boost with the equalizer (while checking for clipping after each boost, making any adjustments necessary).

i've got two things keeping me from doing that..
1. i dont have an oscilliscope yet (i want it for car audio/home audio)
2. i am missing one of my headphone-to-rca adapters (so right now i can only output from the laptop - or input, not both at once)

and the ear fatigue is bad.. i am certain that i keep wanting to turn up the power to hunt down the defined details, but i need to get rid of these nasty peaks first (lots of fatigue).

anybody know what i'm talking about and can help?
this forum looks rather 'above-average' so i'm hoping for some exciting results.

 

[Drubbing]

Put the test gear away - they know nothing about whether something sounds good or not. Buy a good soundcard or DAC.
Plug in the SR60. They don't need an amp.
Listen to the music instead.
If ear fatigue is the problem due to treble, it's the SR60, they're renowned for it.
Get new phones if it persists.

 

[anwaypasible]

i suppose i could just use this frequency respones for reference huh..

as far as i'm concerned, trying to drive a 500 watt speaker with 50 watts is only gonna make noise if the coil/magnet has lots of dynamics.
so for instance, if you have a subwoofer that has absolutely no capability to produce sound quality.. then the 50 watts wont produce anything audible.
but..
if the subwoofer DOES have the capability to pronunciate/produce sound quality, then the 50 watts will produce audio with an extremely bright tone/color.
(only when you feed the speaker the full 500 watts will you notice that the same note played at 50 watts now has lost the 'tin' or 'aluminum' colour that is often spoken about in slang-terms as 'bright' (the slang term for the difference noticeable is 'warm')

that is why i brought up the 'more-refined' 'more-defined' aspect in my above post.

with all the pyramid, pyle, alpine, infinity, kicker, rockford fosgate junk that absolutely litters vendors warehouse space.. you can learn an astonishing amount about the characteristics of a transducer just by simply feeding the driver 1/10th - 1/5th the amount of power that the coil is rated for.
- dull and lifeless output at a substantially lower power level than required means the speaker isnt capable of pronunciation (or the transducers spider is extremely stiff preventing excursion.. and thus, the driver may still be able to produce quality pronunciating sound)
- 'bright' 'tin' 'aluminum' sound coming from a speaker with a substantially lower power level than REQUIRED means the transducer you are dealing with has a 'more-than-subtle' chance to create jaw-dropping sound quality.

(remember.. the above is FREE-AIR examples, because putting a speaker inside a sealed box will make excursion less-likely to happen, which is really the same thing as having an extremely stiff/stubborn spider wrapped around the voice coil)

for all i know, this laptop might have a power output level that is so low.. it is like comparing a semi trying to pull a trailer down the road with an 80cc honda dirt bike motor (it wont happen with the original semi transmission)
the comparison is also like trying to pry open a door with a 9inch screwdriver, it simply aint gonna happen if the door is solid in its frame.. now a 3ft crowbar, that would make a world of difference because the leverage ratio being applied is of substantially greater force.


again..
my biggest question is, what is the thermal-volt (millivolt/milliwatt) specifications for the grado sr60 voice coils.

 

[jawang]

the kind of analysis you are doing doesn't make sense for sr60s. Those are entry level budget headphones that simply aren't meant to be tweaked like that. It's like if you try to overclock a $300 dell that you bought on clearance. Sure it "can" be done, its just not worth it unless you are doing it for educational purposes

rather than buy that oscilloscope (which is quite expensive), why not just buy some mid-fi or better headphones (hd650/k701/etc.) which will cost the same amount and will sound way better even if you do zero tweaking

 

[nhancakes]

all this is a little overkill i think for a 60 dollar headphone. I found the sr60s fatiguing to listen to when i had them also.

 

[anwaypasible]

yea yea.. and a 150 watt cerwin vega stroker simply doesnt put out 150dB in the back of a car during a dB drag.

skeptics isnt what i was asking for.

if you want skeptisism.. the dB drag wars are a great place to start.
150 watt - 250 watt subwoofers back in the early 1990's were attaining the high numbers that are so common of today.

and even by todays standards..
1000 watt rms subs can still be tied by PROPERLY setup 350 watt subs.

why post if your not going to add something informative?

and to rekindle why the sr60 headphones have won so many reviews.. the transducers provide an astonishing amount of detail, despite having zero soundstage.
the sensitivity from these drivers create a timber effect as if the driver can play any waveform multiple times at once, which equates to their obnoxious amount of detail (directly in the ear, might i add)

those dozens of midrange and the majority of the high-end headphones all tailor to a wide soundstage, not detail and accuracy.

i got to do a pre-screening back in the late 80's of all the headphones people are arguing about today.
it was only the truly exceptional grado's and denon headphones that were stil under wraps in a computer software optimization 'chamber' awaiting their finalized rest.

i'd be a guy that would take your headphone purchase choice and send in your judgement so as to affect your credit score.

mind you..
once you get into the hi-fi genre of headphones.. there are differences as little as 1dB and the economy has been designed this way to see who would argue and give theirself a stroke over 1dB difference.

thats like my $300 dell versus your $400 laptop.. your laptop processor is 2 seconds faster than mine at a virus scan.. SO BLOODY WHAT, i saved $100 and THATS WHAT COUNTS.

maybe you should do some of your own benchmarks rather than playing 'phone' with other peoples results, because you know - the teacher tells the first student the word, and by the time that word makes it across the entire classroom.. the end-result is disasterous.

 

[iriverdude]

A desktop oscilloscope will cost a thousand dollars if not more. And you'll need to get it calibrated. All for a $60 US headphone.

Makes sense. If you're stark raving bonkers..

 

[anwaypasible]

and am i the only one who uses a distinct pop in music to determine if my amp damping factor is at <1000 or >2000

if your amp is pushing & pulling at the EXACT SAME TIME.. you wont hear that pop, that pop will be turned into heat on the voice coil.

again..
i just want to get close to the coils rated thermal area so i can ensure the drivers are @ 100% capability & effort

(lets not mention that some power ratings for amps that push and pull at the same time are for only ONE instance.. the pushing or the pulling, and thus.. the speaker requirements need to be DOUBLE whatever the manufacturer of the amp specifies)

ya'll are being Icky

have you made sure that your power wires are far-seperated from the wires carrying data??!
all of mine have at least 3 inches seperation.

and i use winamp with electri-Q to play my music.
i've adjusted electri-Q to compensate for every single fluctuation shown in the above frequency response.. AND WOW, it seems to have unlocked a huge amount of detail.
(and the $60 price tag is now starting to show its color, because the bass is minimal and in need of a house curve adjustment.. but that would destroy the characteristics of the driver, leading to reduced detail and more heat because the voice coil is trying to do 2 things at once with no dynamic path to do it.)

 

[anwaypasible]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif A desktop oscilloscope will cost a thousand dollars if not more. And you'll need to get it calibrated. All for a $60 US headphone. Makes sense. If you're stark raving bonkers..

worst-case scenario.. the trace is slow because the resistors and capacitors inside have obscene quality.

if there is no trace.. that would probably be a piece of component that has literally dried up (or the crt is bad)

i figure if i can dial in and find the wave, i can determine how 'numb' my visual representation is.
yet then they taught me about how some pwm amplifiers 'tube-roll' and that a used oscilliscope might not catch the clipping on the first roll which leads to catastrophic consequences/component failure.. lowered resistance across the entire PCB board, which truly shows the component quality.



besides..
i have got out my audio gear and shoved the microphone directly onto a $16 pair of sony 'street-style' headphones, and it helped draw the detail that was in the timbre down into the upper midrange area.

every action has a ten-fold result..
i just didnt think i'd be receiving ten-fold results socially.

ah well..
i know the economy is heartless, and thus all details associated with anything are presented misconstrued.

why i even bother making a social effort anymore is rather questionable.

i cant afford a higher quality DAC for this laptop (whats that.. $60 pcmcia card on ebay)
so what makes you think i can/desire purchasing more and more and more.

that is todays economy, purchase everything just to bench test it and tell everybody how pathetic it all is.
and those bench testers are the true people that know, majority of quality items to place in the chest are in the low to midrange where all the 'features' aren't present.

and then..
if the thing is worth a damn.. the output is only 1/3rd what any one of us would desire the output to be.

mark me down as one of the people who realize, just because there is a giant capacitor powering that thing doesn't mean i dont understand that the capacitor will need to recharge eventually.

i'd imagine a DJ setup that 'saves lots of money on electric bills' because throughout the entire 4 hours set.. the equipment is running off the capacitors.. and then when the DJ goes home to practice on his/her gear, that is when the capacitor will need to be recharged.

'its no wonder the clip light kept blinking'
i'm way ahead.. i'd charge the capacitors at the factory before shipping out.. how bout those apples?