[CC Lemon]

After getting some recommendations previously and doing some research on my own, I think I've narrowed it down a bit more. I'm still open to recommendations or explanations why something is better than other options within my price range.

I'm looking for something that will be fine without an amp, though I'll most likely be getting a portable amp sometime anyways. I most often listen to metal and especially enjoy double bass, so I definitely want a tight bass and want to avoid something that might lean towards a muddier sound. That said, I do occasionally listen to some stuff towards the end of orchestral, classical and musicals. With that taken into account, I'm guessing I'll want to find something that's somewhat neutral. They will pretty much only be used with my iphone and computers.

Grado SR225: I've read many reviews of these and they usually seem satisfied. It seems like these would pair very well with metal and have responsive lows. It sounds like they are slightly uncomfortable which would be bad, but I'd probably be able to put up with it.

Sennheiser HD595: These are the cheapest of the 3 and saving money is always nice. That said, I dont want to sacrifice quality. I've had my HD280 pros for a couple years now and have really enjoyed their sound. I also have a pair of the noise canceling phones which I also liked. Overall, I've been very pleased with sennheiser thus far. I've read a couple places that the bass might be a little weaker than desired, which would be a bit of a negative. They sound like they're fairly comfortable and I'm assuming it would be similar to my HD280s which is good.

Denon AHD2000: Though a tad more expensive than the other 2, they appear to be a good choice and the fact that they're closed might also be beneficial for me. Seems like they also have a nice bass and overall clarity. Some said they were too much bass, but I've heard some phones that are fairly bassy and was fine aside from the muddied sound. It seems these avoid that issue so I'm not too worried. They sound like they might be a bit more comfy than the Grado which would be a plus.

Now, one thing that's definitely undecided for me: open or closed. They will mostly be used at home.... BUT... I might occasionally use them while I'm out and about. No specific instances so I cant really comment on environmental noise. Due to that, I'm kind of leaning towards erring on the side of caution and go for a closed phone. Since they will be used mostly at home, I wont completely regret getting open, though I might be a little annoyed in those few instances when I want to use them elsewhere.

At this point, I'm leaning most towards the denon. The sound quality with the bass, comfort, and appearance all seem to be along the lines of what I'm looking for, though the others still seem like good competition. Any input or recommendations are appreciated!

 

[moogman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CC Lemon /img/forum/go_quote.gif I most often listen to metal and especially enjoy double bass, so I definitely want a tight bass and want to avoid something that might lean towards a muddier sound.

That's the HD595 out of the equation then. I've spent a small fortune (to me) on a DAC and amp to get rid of the muddy mids and improve the bass. A DAC has improved the lack of bass but the muddiness is still bugging me big-time.

I'm saving up for the D2000s - hopefully a lot clearer with better bass.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Denon D2000 > Grado SR225 > Sennheiser HD595

Just my two cents...

 

[CC Lemon]

Thanks for the input. That really helps the decision process. I had read about the 595's bass and it worried me a bit. I've been satisfied with the 280's and pxc's so I still had hope for the 595, but it sounds like I'd be unhappy with those.

How much do the D2000 usually go for? A couple places I've checked have them listed over $300, but I've also seen them just over $200. Are the ones over $200 a great deal or is that just regular prices at places with better pricing? The grado and sennheiser prices seem a lot more consistent than that.

 

[RallyMaster]

Denon D2000 > Sennheiser HD595 > Grado SR225 would be my order.

I despise the Grado lack of comfort and the massive noise leakage. The HD595 for me had more bass than the SR225 but overall it's not as satisfying as a good closed headphone. The Denon D2000 can best be described as powerful but does tend to have a V-shaped frequency response with emphasis on bass and highs but not so much on the mids. The Denon would be my pick for a headphone to use for most genres and not just something like rock/metal (Grados) or classical/jazz (Sennheiser HD595).

 

[joeq70]

I've owned both the Denon D2000 and the Grado SR-225. The 225 wins hands down. Just goes to show you how different everyone's ears are. Also,if you should ever want to wear your phones on the go, Denons are a terrible choice as they are heavy and loose fitting--they slid off of my head quite easily, while Grados and Ultrasones have stayed securely in place.

 

[roker]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero /img/forum/go_quote.gif Denon D2000 > Grado SR225 > Sennheiser HD595 Just my two cents...

best equation.

Edit: Since you're on a budget, have you considered auditioning the SR125s? Also, although I prefer the Denon D2000s, I still love the Grado sound. I don't think you could go wrong with either of those two.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

I'd rank the Grado SR225 over the Denon D2000 for rock and metal.

The Denon D2000 is very nice for what it is. Very enjoyable to listen to. But it can make rock and metal sound too polite and in some cases get the sound just plain wrong. The D2000 has some sucked out midrange frequencies. If the lead guitar or the singers voice happens to be in that sucked out range it will very very wrong. It doesn't affect all songs. Only a few and it's selective about those few. But when it happens it is a huge huge suckout.

For example, the song Super Colossal by Joe Satriani the lead guitar gets completely sucked out. It becomes uncomfortable to me to listen to it on the D2000. The rest of the songs on the album are fine. Just that one. It sounds like the guitar is 30 feet behind the stage, and it's the lead guitar. A problem like that will never happen with the Grados. The Grados also have more energy and drive in the music compared to the D2000. The D2000 will have more space and soundstage and be easier to listen to for longer periods.

The Grados can be used portable. As long as you're in an area where it is OK to leak sound. I don't mind if sound leaks in as I listen. But it's just rude to use open headphones like the Grados cranking rock and be in close proximity to someone else. I've seen people walking on the sidewalk listening to Grados. You can order the flat pads and try them out if you want the Grados to be more comfortable.

 

[Mink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd rank the Grado SR225 over the Denon D2000 for rock and metal. The D2000 has some sucked out midrange frequencies. If the lead guitar or the singers voice happens to be in that sucked out range it will very very wrong. For example, the song Super Colossal by Joe Satriani the lead guitar gets completely sucked out. It becomes uncomfortable to me to listen to it on the D2000. The rest of the songs on the album are fine. Just that one. It sounds like the guitar is 30 feet behind the stage, and it's the lead guitar. A problem like that will never happen with the Grados.

This graph seems to illustrate that very clearly

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mink /img/forum/go_quote.gif This graph seems to illustrate that very clearly

The suckouts are very very narrowly focused and quite particular about what is affected. It doesn't show up on a graph like that. The graph does show a general recessed midrange but doesn't show the kind of focused suckout that is apparent on that particular Satriani song.

It's just a weird thing with the Denon D2000. Only really affects a few songs. Not a big deal for the majority of songs.

The Denon's do have a general recessed or distant midrange which doesn't work as well for energetic metal and rock as the more forward midrange of the Grados.

 

[CC Lemon]

Well, that does bring the grados a bit more into the equation again, though I'm still leaning towards the denon. It sounds like the grados might be a tad better for metal, but I feel like I'll be more satisfied with the overall use of the denons. Also, the more I think about it, the more I feel better about getting a closed phone. These are meant to be an upgrade to my HD280's so I feel that I'll be happier with something closed again. There's a fair chance I'll end up trying to get a good home only set up so I would feel better with having opens for something like that.

I'm still open to comments or other recommendations, so I'm not 100% decided yet. The grados were my original #1, so I'm still very interested in them.

 

[CC Lemon]

Just to make it even so the denons aren't the only closed option, I'm going to throw in the ultrasone pro 650. I'm not sure if they're as good for rock and metal but they seemed like they'd be a good all around phone. I haven't personally used any ultrasone products but there's something I like about them.

 

[mgrewe]

Even though the D2000 are closed, THEY LEAK AND LET NOISE IN!! It doesn't really act like a closed can, except for the bass being fairly strong and uncontrolled. Also, someone mentioned in an earlier post that they are bad for portable and I would have to agree completely. They are great for home use, but are just too loose for on the go usage. They won't be very good for metal, especially if you use them without an amp. I'm not saying they are bad HP, I love mine, but for your tastes, I don't think they will do the trick.

 

[Ham Sandwich]

Yes, give the Ultrasone series some consideration, the HFI and the Pro. I'm not very familiar with the Ultrasones. Only listened to a few of them at meets. Definitely worth a listen for metal and rock if you want a closed headphone. I don't know enough about the Ultrasones to give any suggestions on specific models.

The Denon D2000 would be a strange choice for metal. I don't listen to much metal. I have some Dream Theater and some Helloween and such. But it isn't something that I regularly listen to. Most of the rock I listen to is classic rock, 70-80s heavy metal or hard rock, Grateful Dead type rock, bluesy rock, and similar. For that the D2000 does well, generally.

With metal, the recessed midrange and general character gives all metal a bit of a "power ballad" kind of flavor and feeling. The hard driving in your face stuff gets power balladized. For Dream Theater and Helloween that can work out OK. For some other harder driving metal, not so much. The D2000 will give you the kick drum hits. That part isn't missing or wanting. It's the midrange flavor that gets altered. That's why I'm trying to steer you away from the Denon if metal is your primary focus.

My other primary full size headphones are the Senn HD600. They aren't that suited for metal either. My other headphones are the Grado SR60. I pull them out when neither the D2000 nor the HD600 are the right choice. For harder driving metal I'd likely be grabbing the SR60.

 

[swmtnbiker]

Any of the three headphones you're considering will be a big step up from the HD280. I agree that the Denons would be a relatively poor choice for portable use. They're big and bulky. That being said the Grados are no better IMO, but for a different reason. Grados have never been a secure fitting headphone for me. Simply leaning forward while wearing one will cause them to almost slip off, and no amount of adjustment to the arc of the headband has ever alleviated that in my case. For this reason, and because they are open and therefore disturb the people around me when I'm using them, I find Grados to be a problematic choice for portable use. IMO the D2000 is much more secure and likely to stay put on my noggin than any Grado I've ever had.

Here's a suggestion - if you're not concerned about using an open headphone in public then why not grab a Koss KSC75 to use on the go and leave the big cans at home? They're very inexpensive, sound extremely good unamped directly out of portable sources, can be modified in a number of different ways, and they are very secure on your ears. If something happens and you damage them you're only out a few bucks for a replacement. Going this route will also enable you to base your purchasing decision on the SR225i/D2000/HD595 soley on which headphone sounds best to you without worrying about taking them outside of the house.