[20Hz]

Noob here. Thanks for taking the time to read another x vs y post. I realize those are two very different cans (based on what I've been told having never heard the 880s). I listened to basically the whole grado and sennheiser lines (well, the ones I was interested in- 225, 325, RS2 and 595, 600s) through both a pro-ject headphone amp and a Macintosh tube preamp, and I vastly prefer the sound from the RSs, so far. I'm thinking about getting a pair and am trying to decide what others to consider.

Here's what I'll be doing with them. 70% late night solo recording/mixing in my little home studio (which used to be handled by AT-M40fs), 30% recreational listening via the headphone out on my stereo. I may listen to my Ipod with them once in a while but it's really not a requirement that they sound good in that scenario. I think I'm mostly interested in open or semi-open because I don't need super isolation and I like the open/detailed/airy sound that I've heard from the open headphones I've listened to.

I'll be listening in the studio via the headphone out on my Mackie mixer and on the hi-fi via the headphone out on my Arcam AVR250 (fed most often by a pretty nice analog setup- Music Hall mmf-9 turntable and a tube phono stage).
The output impedance on the mackie is 120ohms and the Arcam is 360ohms.

I thought about K701s but I just don't feel like buying a headphone amp and the consensus seems to be that they'll suffer w/out one.

I hear the same things about DT880s, but on the other hand many folks defending the sound of unamped 880s as well.

I love the smooth detailed sound of the RS-2s, I guess I like smooth and detailed. I've also heard that the 880s can be very forward with the treble which sound like it might be a bit of a problem. I thought the grado 325s that I listened to had pretty agressive treble.

So anyway, from what I've written above, anybody think I'm crazy to be trying these two or are there some others that I should be looking at in the $200-400 range?

Thanks

 

[nhancakes]

used RS-1s could be had for about 400 on audiogon and around the sale forums here. Have you listened to them before? I think Grados sound great with analog setups.

 

[revolink24]

Most of the Grados have pretty aggressive treble. Its part of their sound signature. Another thing to consider is Grados don't have terrific soundstaging, which may or may not be a drawback while recording and mixing. That's not to say they are bad headphones, per se (I love my Grados) but it is something to consider. I haven't heard the DT880s. Another thing to consider is the Audio Technica line, ATH-AD700/AD900 (open) and ATH-A700 (closed.)

 

[nhancakes]

Hm i bet he could do better than the AD700(~$65) for the money he has to spend.

 

[revolink24]

I just figured I would mention them. Since he likes the Grado sound, I mentioned AT rather than Sennheiser.

Two more options
Denon AH-D2000
Shure SRH840

 

[IPodPJ]

I really like the DT880/600 ohm. You need a lot of power to drive them though.

 

[20Hz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by revolink24 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most of the Grados have pretty aggressive treble. Its part of their sound signature. Another thing to consider is Grados don't have terrific soundstaging, which may or may not be a drawback while recording and mixing. That's not to say they are bad headphones, per se (I love my Grados) but it is something to consider. I haven't heard the DT880s. Another thing to consider is the Audio Technica line, ATH-AD700/AD900 (open) and ATH-A700 (closed.)

Yeah soundstaging isn't my priority, I have monitors that I check that sort of thing on.

AD900s look interesting. Can anyone compare the sound to RS2s?

Anyone with similar (to mine) sources tried these headphones?


Thanks

 

[jawang]

Regarding your comment about k701s.

The reason why people suggest an amp for k701s is because they won't sound their best without an amp. They can still get really loud without an amp.

In this sense, Grado RS2s and Beyer DT880s also need an amp to sound their best. They might still sound okay, but there's no avoiding the amp issue if you really want the most out of your cans.


You should ask someone more knowledgable than I am, but you might get better sound quality in the same price range with cheaper headphones + an average amp.

 

[20Hz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jawang /img/forum/go_quote.gif Regarding your comment about k701s. The reason why people suggest an amp for k701s is because they won't sound their best without an amp. They can still get really loud without an amp. In this sense, Grado RS2s and Beyer DT880s also need an amp to sound their best. They might still sound okay, but there's no avoiding the amp issue if you really want the most out of your cans. You should ask someone more knowledgable than I am, but you might get better sound quality in the same price range with cheaper headphones + an average amp.

Yeah at this point I'm not interested in buying an amp. It's not just a money thing but the fact that I'll be using these phones on a mixer in the basement and on a receiver in the living room. Not interested in unplugging and carrying stuff between the sources.

 

[shomie911]

Get the RS-2.

They sound great with relatively little power compared to the DT-880's which have particularly bad siblilance, unless matched with a good tube amp to tame the treble.

 

[Drubbing]

Given your usage, I'd suggest the 880 would be better for what you want. I've heard them with a CA 840 CDP and Arietta amp, which is probably underpowering them, and they sound very neutral and detailed, but I didn't enjoy them greatly. So on a trip to the US soon, I'll be checking the RS2, as opinions here are massively diverse about what they're like.

If you don't want an amp, don't listen to those who say the 880/701 go loud enough, or are OK without an amp; such phones just won't sound their best without one, because it's not about volume that gets them to perform properly, it's power - to activate the drivers.

for phones without amping, the AD900 is certainly worth looking into; nicely balanced and very good detail. Went off my list because ATs are just too big for me.

 

[ting.mike]

So you'll be buying this for music listening, or mixing?

for mixing, don't think you want either, as they are not the most neutral headphones. I'd go for K701 for mixing
for music, the RS2 is superior than the DT880.

Neverthless, K701, RS2, and DT880 all need amping.

 

[royalcrown]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 20Hz /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah at this point I'm not interested in buying an amp. It's not just a money thing but the fact that I'll be using these phones on a mixer in the basement and on a receiver in the living room. Not interested in unplugging and carrying stuff between the sources.

IMO (I know people will disagree), plugging headphones into mixers or receivers (receivers being a bit more finicky) will net you most if not all of the benefits of a dedicated headphone amp. I would go with the DT880 personally if you're going to spend time mixing, as they are more accurate than any Grado (wrt frequency response linearity). The high impedance also means it can be driven from just about any source with the proper power requirements. A mixer or receiver will likely provide more than enough for your application.

 

[20Hz]

well I guess I'm going to find out, because I ordered both

from Drew at Moon Audio (who has been super helpful)

I'll post my impressions when they get here.

Thanks for the feeback folks

 

[20Hz]

Well I'm pretty amazed at the results of a week of back to back listening with the DT880s and the RS2s.
I guess I thought the RS2s were my heavy favorites due to the feedback I'd received in this forum, and the fact that I'd listened to them in the store and really liked how they sounded.
They're both really, really good sounding headphones in my opinion. But after a few hours a couple of benefits of the DT880s started appearing and they just became more obvious the longer I listened.

Note-this is just on my 2 primary sources (Arcam Receiver and Mackie Mixer, both fed by good sources)

1) Balance. The Grados sound wonderful, but switching back and forth between them on many different kinds of sources I could consistently hear more of the music with the Beyers. The Grados seemed to hype certain parts of the frequency range which meant that certain instruments and voices stood way out in the mix. Then I would switch to the Beyers and everything seemed much more coherent and full. On tracks with a lot of stuff going on I could hear more of everything. There were certain areas/frequency ranges where I thought there was more detail with the Grados (Male vocals and distorted guitars for instance) but I'm happy to give up some of that narrow spectrum detail for more detail most everywhere else with the Beyers

2) Bass quality. This was tough because the Grados have really nice bass but it seems that they give up a little definition and depth to the Beyers. They (the Grados) have more bass in the low mids (to my ears) which at first makes them seem to be more bassy, but back to back I could hear stuff that string basses for instance were doing on the Beyers which wasn't there on the grados.

3) Musicality (heh)- for lack of a better term. What comes out of the Beyers just sounds much more involving and musical to me. They (as hi-fi wonks are apt to say) disappear and let me just enjoy the music. Too often with the Grados something would be sticking out so much that the whole vibe of the music was less together.

4) Comfort. On this the Beyers were the clear winners and may have influenced how I felt about them in the other aspects. On my head the Beyers fit perfectly, while the Grados put pressure on my ears from the start.

One other thing- this is just a noob's opinion, but folks should lay off the 'they'll suck without an amp' thing a bit, imo. Maybe the Beyers would suck driven by my iphone. I don't know I didn't try. But a high quality receiver (or maybe just mine

) and a Mackie mixer both drive both of these headphones just fine from what I can tell. In fact the Beyers sound MUCH better than the Grados on my receiver. Maybe it's just down to a much closer impedance match or maybe my receiver has a very good headphone section or maybe both but in any case they sound fantastic. None of the sibilance people talk about with unamped Beyers. No veiled sound, just smooth, balanced, detailed music.
Just my opinion, of course.

now back to listening