[hrbballman]

Hey all, 
   I work at a record store that is a grado dealer.  They have all the lower end models and they sell pretty well.  I was never very interested in the lower end stuff though so I never thought much of it.  Recently the topic of headphones came up and I mentioned that I have quite a few and that I really enjoy the hobby.  The owner mentioned that he had some of the higher-end ones and that they just sit in the back because they are way too expensive for the customers he caters too.   He told me that he would sell them to me for what he bought them for.  I'm not sure if I need anymore headphones but i don't have any Grado's and they would be a good addition to my collection.  They are the PS-500.  He wants $500 for them but i'm guessing I could talk him down.  Is this a reasonable price? I haven't been able to find much on them.  Are they relatively well liked?  I have a pair of HD-650's.  How do the PS-500 compare to them and would it be a bit of an upgrade from the HD-650?  Thanks.

 

[chrislangley4253]

Your money would be better spent on making a magnum. My .02

 

[downtower]

I honestly did like the grado sound but if you are not going to have it can i buy it from you?]
if it is around 450~500 I am willing to buy it from you

 

[wje]

Quote:

Your money would be better spent on making a magnum. My .02

 
Yes.  Correct.  The woody Magnum is quite a great headphone.  Whether it is better than the PS-500 would be subjective.  However, you could get into the woody Magnum league for about $350 - $375.

 

[Grado77]

---------------------

 

[jackwess]

replying a 2 weeks old thread is not a good idea.. probably the op made a purchase already? 

 

[wje]

Quote:

replying a 2 weeks old thread is not a good idea.. probably the op made a purchase already? 

 
It's not only a matter of the OP already making a purchase, but there's also the option that other potential buyers will see this thread and be able to read the provided advice and adjust their purchase decisions accordingly.  If you get a little tweaked by people who bump or respond to posts two weeks later ... I wonder how you'd feel about threads that are two YEARS old?  Yes, that can and does happen around here. 

 

[KneelJung]

I wonder what the OP decided to do. I know  Chris and yourself think the Magnum offers a lot of value, and it no doubt does. I think one of the draw backs of a Magnum though for your typical buyer is that they are probably not DIY'ers and dont want to be. They want something that is plug and play. To me the attraction of a PS500 would be comparing  and contrasting it to my HF2. Beyond that though for someone that probably wouldnt have otherwise been motivated to buy a Grado product like the OP, a brand new PS500 at cost would be pretty enticing. Especially if he could turn around and get his money back on the FS forum after being able to enjoy it and put it through it's paces.
 
Personally, I'm still wondering what an HE400 sounds like compared to an HF2

 

[wje]

Quote:

I wonder what the OP decided to do. I know  Chris and yourself think the Magnum offers a lot of value, and it no doubt does. I think one of the draw backs of a Magnum though for your typical buyer is that they are probably not DIY'ers and dont want to be. They want something that is plug and play. To me the attraction of a PS500 would be comparing  and contrasting it to my HF2. Beyond that though for someone that probably wouldnt have otherwise been motivated to buy a Grado product like the OP, a brand new PS500 at cost would be pretty enticing. Especially if he could turn around and get his money back on the FS forum after being able to enjoy it and put it through it's paces.
 
Personally, I'm still wondering what an HE400 sounds like compared to an HF2

 
Well, since my HF-2 sale funds essentially went to the HE-400s, all I can say is that it really isn't a truly honest comparison.  The HE-400s, while a bit more inefficient than the HF-2s, just digs down and does music right.  About 2 months ago, I had a chance to perform a "test" swap with another member who had a pair of wooden Fostex cans.  In exchange, I sent my Honduran mahogany Magnums, which were my triple crown headphones in regards to where I finally ended up with the Grado / Magnum modification process.  They were done right - Mogami cable, etc., etc.  However, when I got them back, I literally couldn't listen to them.  To me, the music just didn't sound right.  It didn't have that impact that the ortho HifiMANs could offer.  I tried and tried, but my ears could just not acclimate to them again.  For, I, was quite saddened by this experience.  But, just a bit over a week before, they were the best sounding cans on that platform that my ears had heard, just ever-so-slightly edging out the HF-2s to my ears.  Due to this process of listener / ear rejection of the headphones, I had to put them up for sale.  And, with that, I guess they say "the rest is all history".

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

 
Yes.  Correct.  The woody Magnum is quite a great headphone.  Whether it is better than the PS-500 would be subjective.  However, you could get into the woody Magnum league for about $350 - $375.

 
... Much cheaper than that if you do it right and know the right people
 
Quote:

IMO PS500 is a great headphone, but not $595 great.
 
I've owned/used 125, 225, 225i, PS500 and just this morning received a pair of Alessandro MS2i (slightly tamed Grado 325 equivalent).
 
I would really take a hard look at MS2i before PS500..........save yourself big bucks........$300! .......I wish I would have paid more attention to these years ago, they are incredible out of box, can't wait til they're broken in some.
 
Put the leftover cash towards a Little Dot I+ amplifier with tubes and DAC of your choice. All of my Grado's have paired extremely well with the LD I+......one of the best bang for buck amps around IMO for 32 ohm Grado.
 
Another choice is the Beyer T70 250 ohm. They are bright like Grado with fantastic bass and mids, comfortable, with a very lush sound. I preferred those over PS500 and they were $200 less.

I don't suggest a little dot
 
Quote:

 
It's not only a matter of the OP already making a purchase, but there's also the option that other potential buyers will see this thread and be able to read the provided advice and adjust their purchase decisions accordingly.  If you get a little tweaked by people who bump or respond to posts two weeks later ... I wonder how you'd feel about threads that are two YEARS old?  Yes, that can and does happen around here. 

+ one hundred million thousand thumbs
Quote:

I wonder what the OP decided to do. I know  Chris and yourself think the Magnum offers a lot of value, and it no doubt does. I think one of the draw backs of a Magnum though for your typical buyer is that they are probably not DIY'ers and dont want to be. They want something that is plug and play. To me the attraction of a PS500 would be comparing  and contrasting it to my HF2. Beyond that though for someone that probably wouldnt have otherwise been motivated to buy a Grado product like the OP, a brand new PS500 at cost would be pretty enticing. Especially if he could turn around and get his money back on the FS forum after being able to enjoy it and put it through it's paces.
 
Personally, I'm still wondering what an HE400 sounds like compared to an HF2

I agree, very much so.. Also, you kind of need to be a diy'er to get all you can out of a pair of magnums (I believe strongly in matching the cups to the particular drivers).. I think it's a shame there isn't someone who could match up cups to drivers and sell them for not an arm and a leg... Of course, then you would be at mercy of the guy deciding what sounded "right" but, it would be better than just randomly matching cups with drivers.
 
Quote:

 
Well, since my HF-2 sale funds essentially went to the HE-400s, all I can say is that it really isn't a truly honest comparison.  The HE-400s, while a bit more inefficient than the HF-2s, just digs down and does music right.  About 2 months ago, I had a chance to perform a "test" swap with another member who had a pair of wooden Fostex cans.  In exchange, I sent my Honduran mahogany Magnums, which were my triple crown headphones in regards to where I finally ended up with the Grado / Magnum modification process.  They were done right - Mogami cable, etc., etc.  However, when I got them back, I literally couldn't listen to them.  To me, the music just didn't sound right.  It didn't have that impact that the ortho HifiMANs could offer.  I tried and tried, but my ears could just not acclimate to them again.  For, I, was quite saddened by this experience.  But, just a bit over a week before, they were the best sounding cans on that platform that my ears had heard, just ever-so-slightly edging out the HF-2s to my ears.  Due to this process of listener / ear rejection of the headphones, I had to put them up for sale.  And, with that, I guess they say "the rest is all history".

You keep making me curious about those damn HE 400's wayne. I kinda wanna do a switcharoo with you sometime or something. But, I don't think I could get em off your head

 

[wje]

Quote:

+ one hundred million thousand thumbs
You keep making me curious about those damn HE 400's wayne. I kinda wanna do a switcharoo with you sometime or something. But, I don't think I could get em off your head

 
Well, I've heard the same request from more than one person. 

  Since I've sold my HE-5LEs, and purchased a pair of HE-500s, I might be able to let the HE-400s go on a bit of a tour, sort of what Stephan was able to do for some of us with the MS-Pros and the Magnums that he had Marty build for him.

 

[abellaw]

Quote:

 
Well, since my HF-2 sale funds essentially went to the HE-400s, all I can say is that it really isn't a truly honest comparison.  The HE-400s, while a bit more inefficient than the HF-2s, just digs down and does music right.  About 2 months ago, I had a chance to perform a "test" swap with another member who had a pair of wooden Fostex cans.  In exchange, I sent my Honduran mahogany Magnums, which were my triple crown headphones in regards to where I finally ended up with the Grado / Magnum modification process.  They were done right - Mogami cable, etc., etc.  However, when I got them back, I literally couldn't listen to them.  To me, the music just didn't sound right.  It didn't have that impact that the ortho HifiMANs could offer.  I tried and tried, but my ears could just not acclimate to them again.  For, I, was quite saddened by this experience.  But, just a bit over a week before, they were the best sounding cans on that platform that my ears had heard, just ever-so-slightly edging out the HF-2s to my ears.  Due to this process of listener / ear rejection of the headphones, I had to put them up for sale.  And, with that, I guess they say "the rest is all history".

 
 
I have talked to you before about the Magnums and i am still curious about them. But i am not confident enough to do a major DIY job. So do you feel the HE-400s have a similar sound sig to the Grados/Magnums and just do it better? Or do they sound totally different?

 

[KneelJung]

Quote:

 
 
I have talked to you before about the Magnums and i am still curious about them. But i am not confident enough to do a major DIY job. So do you feel the HE-400s have a similar sound sig to the Grados/Magnums and just do it better? Or do they sound totally different?

The DIY job is more of a process. Sourcing a pair of cups, a cable, a headphone assembly, and the drivers from Rhydon. If you actually assemble all that stuff, DIY...I think the toughest thing for most people would be soldering the cable to the drivers. The cable itself could actually be complicated if you didnt source one that was already assembled. The drivers should actually just friction fit into your wood cups. From that point it's just a matter of attaching the headphone assembly. The other option is a complete build from Orrenholtz, not sure what he charges. As far as the sound sig, I thought they were somewhat similar in flavor to my HF2's, which is more balanced than your typical Grado. They seemed like maybe they were a little crisper, that is they had a little better separation between instruments. It could have been to, that what I was perceiving was more of a blacker background, which is what I like about my T50's. Also I dont think Wayne finds the Magnum sig and the HE400 to have a similar sound based on the comments he made to me. Wayne's complete conversion to orthos is fairly intriguing because it's sort of like he had this really good wife (the Grado's) and dumped her for a young hotty (the ortho's).

 

[wje]

Quote:

I have talked to you before about the Magnums and i am still curious about them. But i am not confident enough to do a major DIY job. So do you feel the HE-400s have a similar sound sig to the Grados/Magnums and just do it better? Or do they sound totally different?

 
I have a lot of respect for the Magnums and Grados in general.  Those were the headphones that were able to get me reconnected to music and to connect with the music so that critical listening and enjoyment could be had as a form of relaxation.  Plus, the beauty of such headphones and combinations that one can come up with is astounding.  Additionally, given the new Manta Onyx headband ($50.00) that's available - with a top grade of leather with more texture, the standards have been upped even higher.
 
Regarding the Magnums, the positives are:
 
- Great detail
 
- A better frequency response range, when compared to many drivers in the Grado lineup.  It's hard to tell where the Magnum v.4 driver finally matches up with the Grado.  Is it the RS-1?  Or, is it even a higher model?  Or, is it in the range of the PS-5500?  This all depends on the listener, their hearing, their music and their desires.
 
- A very enthusiastic member group here that are very open to share their ideas and updates with others, so we all can learn what is out there, what went well and what may not have gone so well.
 
 
Some of the negatives can be:
 
- The costs of how far you want to take your upgrades.  This could be a postive, too, though.
 
- The resale value can depress you a bit when you learn what the market will pay vs. what you've invested.  So, you have to plan carefully and if the headphones are just a stepping stone, you might not want to go "all out" on your upgrades, but keep them to desireable updates that others who are in the buying market will be pulled in by.
 
- Elbow grease.  As Brian indicated, one serves as essentially their own project manager in seeking out the various components from several sources, then builds the product as the pieces arrive.  However, again, if this is a part of the hobby that someone enjoys, it can also be a positive.
 
How the HifiMAN HE-400s stack up:
 
- The HifiMAN HE-400 is a headphone that is capable of delivering Grado-like detail via an orthodynamic-design driver.  Yet, the HE-400 can be defined as having a dark signature, when compared to some of the others in the HifiMAN line.  However, the HE-400 can do bass better than any Magnum or Grado that I've head on my ears.  Yet, the HifiMAN is an open headphone, so one does give up some music privacy when using them and people around you might get offended by your listening to open headphones vs. closed headphones.  Also, the Grado / Magnum headphones are quite light and rest on your ears.  The HifiMAN, in contrast, has pads that fit on the outside of your ears and the headphones themselves are bulky and more weighty compared to the Grado / Magnum line.  However, to me, the HifiMAN HE-400s were quite a pleasing leap forward.  I didn't feel obligated to any additional headphone upgrades once I purchased them since the leather headband is standard, the pleater ear pads are standard and the velour ear pads only cost $10 per pair, plus shipping.  Once the intial investment is made in the HE-400s, one doesn't need to wish or dream of other upgrades.  Sure, the cable options are out there, but I'm not even touching that at this period of time.  There's hardly a use for me to even consider some silver cables at this point because purchasing about 15 feet of cable would hurt the wallet - bad.
 
Quote:

Also I dont think Wayne finds the Magnum sig and the HE400 to have a similar sound based on the comments he made to me. Wayne's complete conversion to orthos is fairly intriguing because it's sort of like he had this really good wife (the Grado's) and dumped her for a young hotty (the ortho's).

 
Fortunately, the only hotties getting close to me nowadays are the sultry female blues singers that I so much enjoy listening to. 

 

[chrislangley4253]

Quote:

Fortunately, the only hotties getting close to me nowadays are the sultry female blues singers that I so much enjoy listening to. 

*coughs*
 
I live in St. Louis...

Blues