[Target1]

Does anyone know why Grado (read both companies whenever I write Grado, its shorter) has such terrible marketing? People love the best, and people are willing to research if they are challenged. If there had been a 30 second ad for Grado during the Superbowl, I'm betting hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of Americans would go check online to see how good Grados really are. Not necessarily go out and buy a set, just check out of curiosity. Who hasn't gazed at an Aston Martin online at some point (or equivalent expensive car you don't have). Unfortunately when someone thinks of good headphones all they see is Bose, and thus this is where they go to gaze. Thus they have no incentive to find another. I am having a terrible time convincing my dad not to get the stinking Quiet Comforts because he just doesn't believe he can get better sound for half the price. I'm positive that a well placed ad campaign could change this over a period of a couple years. Marketing is about name recognition, and Grado has none.

Mark

PS By none I mean to the vast majority of people around the US.

PPS Go to all your friends that have no idea you spent $200 on cans, and ask them what headphones they would get if they could have any in the whole world. For me its an overwelming 90% or so that says Bose, and about 8% say they don't like headphones. I'm just assuming that someone has heard of Grado, though I haven't come across one yet. I have only asked about 20 people.

 

[EdipisReks]

the answer you are going to get is this; "we don't put money into advertising so that we can put the money towards making better products". anyway, you shouldn't really lump sennheiser with grado in this regard; sennheiser is the largest headphone manufacturer and is doing just fine without having to do a ton of advertising.

 

[Nak Man]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 Marketing is about name recognition, and Grado has none.

Imo Sennheiser is a well recognised brand among people who know about headphones. Over here I often get asked if there's something wrong with my handphone whenever I say I'll be looking for (another) set of phones.

 

[jpr703]

You have to remember that Grado is also basically a family business. Their personal interests and preferences can affect the business greatly and their goals may not be the same as those of a typical corporation.

 

[Fidelity]

Most people (IMO) can hardly make out which is better from a cheap $30 headphone and that from a ~$150 Sennheiser/Grado pair, for a start their sources such as 128kb MP3's from an ipod can hardly be classed as "near CD quality".

 

[mmmmcheese]

Also commercials during the super bowl are super expensive... millions just to have time

 

[Target1]

In terms of the superbowl, such commercials pay massive dividends. As for Sennheiser, Apple sold more hard disk based mp3 players than any other company 5 years ago just like today. Through clever marketing they have turned the ipod into a status icon. Saying that "we sell more than anyone else, why advertise?" is VERY poor business. At least for my generation Senns and Grados could easily do what Apple has done. I know that once I found out about such headphones I had to have a set. I'm like that. A bit impulsive. There are a WHOLE lot more people out there just like me. Wanting to buy this product if they are but told to.

Mark

 

[sr20dem0n]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 In terms of the superbowl, such commercials pay massive dividends. As for Sennheiser, Apple sold more hard disk based mp3 players than any other company 5 years ago just like today. Through clever marketing they have turned the ipod into a status icon. Saying that "we sell more than anyone else, why advertise?" is VERY poor business. At least for my generation Senns and Grados could easily do what Apple has done. I know that once I found out about such headphones I had to have a set. I'm like that. A bit impulsive. There are a WHOLE lot more people out there just like me. Wanting to buy this product if they are but told to. Mark

The problem is that such an advertising campaign would greatly increase the cost that we have to pay for these products. People rant and rave about how overpriced Bose is, well just look at how much advertising they do. You want Senn and Grado to do the same? Their prices will skyrocket just the same, maybe not to the extent that Bose has, but quite a bit nonetheless. Every audio field is the same way, there are a few big companies that cost a TON for what you get, but it's what everyone knows and what everyone gets. Then hiding in the background there are a few underdogs that cost half as much and give equal or better performance, the tradeoff is that not many people know about them and you have to do some research to find them. The reason they cost so little is the same reason that you have to do research to discover them, they don't advertise, if they WERE to advertise then they would just become another one of the big boys that everyone sees, everyone knows, everyone owns, and costs twice as much as it should.

I say leave things the way they are, if people aren't willing to research their $200 purchase to see if there's something out there that's better then screw em, their loss, our gain.

 

[Canman]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Target1 Marketing is about name recognition, and Grado has none.

That is incorrect for the niche segment of the market that Grado appeals to. The Grado name has been around for decades and they have distributors and retailers marketing for them in audio publications, as well as product reviews in Stereophile.

If you are talking about creating product appeal for the non-audiophile segment who is not knowledgable, you are talking about a whole different story.

Based on the Forbes article on the Grado Labs website (which appears to be a couple of years old), Grado Labs had revenues of $2 Million. I would imagine that the company has seen significant growth since then but $5 Million would be my top end estimate. Either way it’s a small company. Concerning your suggestion for a $2.4 Million Superbowl Ad, that is obviously not going to work. For the size company that they are, I think they do an excellent job getting their name out there. Advertising in publications outside of the audio world would be a gamble. This is because most people view electronics as a commodity, and as a result make their purchase decision on price rather than quality.

In comparison, Sennheiser is a much larger company. They take out large advertisements in audio publications. Keep in mind that headphones are only one area of their company -- most likely they receive much more revenue from their professional audio segment, including microphones. I would imagine that in effect their advertising budget is more focused on the professional market rather than high end audio, which is a very limited market. For this reason, if you don’t read the professional audio trade publications, you may not see their name much outside of their Stereophile ads.

I wouldn’t agree with you at all if it weren’t for the Bose marketing machine that differentiates a product on quality and sells overpriced equipment that sounds very average. Somehow they get people with not a lot of disposable income to buy the Wave Radio. I have heard it from more than one person: Hey, check out my Wave Radio, doesn’t it sound awesome? I nod and say yes, thinking to myself two things: 1) yeah it sounds OK but it’s a $400 clock radio! 2) How do they get people to buy this because that’s the business I want to get into!

The question now is: Is it possible for a high end audio marketing campaign to the masses to be run on substance rather than the BS that Bose provides? What if Herbie Hancock went on TV for Sennheiser and said he can’t tell the difference between his own piano and music playing through headphones? Maybe it’s possible, but it’s expensive to market like Bose does and most people still view headphones in particular as am commodity. Maybe a speaker manufacturer could do it, but I think it would be a waste of money for a headphone manufacturer. Part of the problem is that people are sold on gimmicks and features they don’t need. These gimmicks differentiate the product at hand from the rest of the competition. Which one sounds better to the average Joe: Bose is better through research! It has three sound ports for increased bass response! Or Grado Labs: Our headphones are molded out of plastic and look like a vintage military head clamp. Gimmicks sell. I don’t think that audio manufacturers would be able to market their products to the non-audiophiles based on sound alone.

Going back to the Forbes article a couple of years ago, Grado Labs earned $650,000 net profit (before income tax) on $2,000,000 revenue. This 32.5% margin before tax is unheard of in most industries. In addition, they had no debt. The family should be doing quite well. It is possible that they are very comfortable making a decent sum of money for the family and don’t want to risk it with a Bose type marketing campaign which takes a lot work, money, time, and more money.

 

[Jonoh]

Superbowl ad time is worth it products or companies that have a relatively large consumer audience (ex. beer, cars, investment servies, a portable music device). Headphones, especially better ones, appeal to a smaller audience. For example, lots of people want portable music players but only a fraction of those want superior sounding headphones. No doubt lots of marketing $$ would increase that audience size but IMO most people are happy with stock earbuds.

My sister thinks her Ipod earbuds are the bomb. If I did not have a reference, my Etys, I would have thought they were fine. In fact, I had earbuds for years and thought they were fine, not high end but fine.

Grados or Sennheiser would get more value for their marketing dollar by placing online ads on sites where music lovers frequent and in hte trade magazines. You will fine both companies does advertise in the mags. Come to think of it, I am surprised they do not do more online marketing.

At the end of the day, putting ads in magazines and online will hit the audience that is inclined to spend money for better sound. The superbowl, and TV in general, is a better venue for less targeted ads (company branding) or ones that have mass apeal.

 

[plus_c]

I'd be willing to wager that a large TV ad placement would attract exactly the WRONG kind of customer to Grado/Senn. Now, before everyone comes after me with pitchforks saying "customers are customers", let me explain.

The average schmoe who buys off of advertising is pretty price-sensitive. They're the kind of people who just want something the cheapest - the Wal-Mart crowd. As a previous poster pointed out, Grado currently has a 32.5% net profit margin - that's unheard of in any consumer industry, let alone electronics. Without having heard a higher end Senn or Grado, the reaction in a store would be exactly the same as when you or I tell our non-audiophile friends how much we spent on our latest purchase - "but these Sonys are just as big and cost 1/6 as much! And they're made by Sony!!!!!11"

The kind of customer Grado and Senn want are exactly the customer they're reaching now, with advertising to trade journals and at select places online - the customer that wants nothing but the best, and is willing to pay extra for it. Convincing members of the former group to join the latter is darn near impossible, and I'd wager that the most effective way to do it would be through a Pepsi challenge kind of deal at audio shops across the country.

Now there's an idea...

 

[jerb]

Sennheiser (sp?) has some marketing, i see their posters everytime i go to a concert, they're all over the walls!