[Chris Ihao]

Hey guys. First of all, yes I have read up on the subject matter, also here on headfi, but I still feel the need for some aid. I am a hobbyist musician and do some production as well. I just decided that I want to get an open set for doing some mixing at night (I'm a night owl), although will finish up my mixes with some Tascam monitors (with a M-audio SBX10 sub). Thing is, I make a lot of different music, from almost classical sounding music, via alternative rock'ish music, to electronic music.

I looked at the Sennheiser HD-650's, and had basically decided on these, but I was a bit put off by all the focus on these being so "lazy and slow" (which is kind of bad for electro), so I kept on looking. Next up was the Hifiman HE-400's, which seem like excellent phones, and is affordable at Around 380 usd here in Norway (570 for the newer "i" version).

Thing is, I found these demo Grado GS1000i's selling at Usd 760 (normally Usd 1270), which seems like a good deal. I contacted the store earlier today, and they could put them aside for me for tomorrow. I am SO close to just pulling the trigger on these, but I just want to get some input, as it still is quite an investment. The "best" phones I ever had was some Beyerdynamic 770's, which unfortunately was ruined by a stupid tendency to have hairs lodged into the Drivers themselves, while I still have some ATH-M50's (which I cant ever seem to become friends with, the uncomfortable rascals), some Harmon & Kardon CL's which I love more and more, and el cheapo Sony XB700's which are the ones I have used the most due to their silly good comfort and surprisingly good but colored sound.

In other words, stepping up to the Grados would be a big step for me, which is also a cool thing in itself, and sort of "feels right" at this point in life. I guess what I am asking is if these would work good for mixing/producing electronic or other kinds of music? I dont mind if there is some small amount color in the first place, as clinically clean reference sound can feel a tad uninspiring in terms of doing something creative producing. Will use my M50's for recording acoustic instruments btw, as obviously the Grados leak like a rusty bucket. Oh, and I logically also love listening to music, so the Grados would double as my goto listening phones at home. I guess I want EVERYTHING here, but realistically I know thats not possible.

Any thoughts? Cheers!

 

[Pirakaphile]

Hey guys. First of all, yes I have read up on the subject matter, also here on headfi, but I still feel the need for some aid. I am a hobbyist musician and do some production as well. I just decided that I want to get an open set for doing some mixing at night (I'm a night owl), although will finish up my mixes with some Tascam monitors (with a M-audio SBX10 sub). Thing is, I make a lot of different music, from almost classical sounding music, via alternative rock'ish music, to electronic music.

I looked at the Sennheiser HD-650's, and had basically decided on these, but I was a bit put off by all the focus on these being so "lazy and slow" (which is kind of bad for electro), so I kept on looking. Next up was the Hifiman HE-400's, which seem like excellent phones, and is affordable at Around 380 usd here in Norway (570 for the newer "i" version).

Thing is, I found these demo Grado GS1000i's selling at Usd 760 (normally Usd 1270), which seems like a good deal. I contacted the store earlier today, and they could put them aside for me for tomorrow. I am SO close to just pulling the trigger on these, but I just want to get some input, as it still is quite an investment. The "best" phones I ever had was some Beyerdynamic 770's, which unfortunately was ruined by a stupid tendency to have hairs lodged into the Drivers themselves, while I still have some ATH-M50's (which I cant ever seem to become friends with, the uncomfortable rascals), some Harmon & Kardon CL's which I love more and more, and el cheapo Sony XB700's which are the ones I have used the most due to their silly good comfort and surprisingly good but colored sound.

In other words, stepping up to the Grados would be a big step for me, which is also a cool thing in itself, and sort of "feels right" at this point in life. I guess what I am asking is if these would work good for mixing/producing electronic or other kinds of music? I dont mind if there is some small amount color in the first place, as clinically clean reference sound can feel a tad uninspiring in terms of doing something creative producing. Will use my M50's for recording acoustic instruments btw, as obviously the Grados leak like a rusty bucket. Oh, and I logically also love listening to music, so the Grados would double as my goto listening phones at home. I guess I want EVERYTHING here, but realistically I know thats not possible.

Any thoughts? Cheers!

Grados, good cans as they are, are very coloured. 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoGS1000.pdf
The frequency response shows a pretty big dip in sub bass, a very aggressive bump in the mid lows, and recessed mids and lower treble until you get to the big bumps in treble. Grados are supposed to sound aggressive, and as much as I love my SR80i, I can't consider it an all arounder. If you really like the sound of the GS1000i then I'd say go with it, but for mixing and mastering music I'd say get a can with a very neutral response and sound. The Hifiman HE-400, 500, 400i, and 560 all have pretty flat response and natural sound. The beyers also have a pretty nice natural sound as well, from what I see in reviews. If you're willing to spend 1k on those Grados, and you really like em, get em. But if you do, use those dudes for music listening rather than mastering. Get some neutral cans for that.
That's my bit of input, hope it helps! 

 

[Chris Ihao]

Grados, good cans as they are, are very coloured. 
http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/GradoGS1000.pdf
The frequency response shows a pretty big dip in sub bass, a very aggressive bump in the mid lows, and recessed mids and lower treble until you get to the big bumps in treble. Grados are supposed to sound aggressive, and as much as I love my SR80i, I can't consider it an all arounder. If you really like the sound of the GS1000i then I'd say go with it, but for mixing and mastering music I'd say get a can with a very neutral response and sound. The Hifiman HE-400, 500, 400i, and 560 all have pretty flat response and natural sound. The beyers also have a pretty nice natural sound as well, from what I see in reviews. If you're willing to spend 1k on those Grados, and you really like em, get em. But if you do, use those dudes for music listening rather than mastering. Get some neutral cans for that.
That's my bit of input, hope it helps! 

Hey. Thanks man. Yeah, thats what I sort of feared, although when looking at the frequency response chart for the he-400's here, it seems to have its own quirks from around 3000 hz and up, while the Grados actually seem a bit more flat in this area. There is a quite big bass boost in the 80hz area of the Grados, but I dont really mind that as bass is impossible to mix on phones anyways imho. Hmm. Its difficult to decide as all the cans have their own personalities.

Although mixing should be as "reference" as possible, it can be overly boring to work with this. Even when using monitors I had to buy a sub to get some ooomph when doing electronic music in particular. When using my DT770's I sometimes felt they were a bit "boring" to work with, but then again I probably didnt amplify them enough. To compensate for the 80hz bump on the phones I COULD just run a good eq on the main track to cut off or flatten the bass a bit I guess. Its more difficult to compensate the other way around, as its difficult to create a good bass response from clinical sounding cans. Anyways, if I DO get those Grados phones there is nothing stopping me from getting additional, more reference ones in the future

 

[Pirakaphile]

Hey. Thanks man. Yeah, thats what I sort of feared, although when looking at the frequency response chart for the he-400's here, it seems to have its own quirks from around 3000 hz and up, while the Grados actually seem a bit more flat in this area. There is a quite big bass boost in the 80hz area of the Grados, but I dont really mind that as bass is impossible to mix on phones anyways imho. Hmm. Its difficult to decide as all the cans have their own personalities.

Although mixing should be as "reference" as possible, it can be overly boring to work with this. Even when using monitors I had to buy a sub to get some ooomph when doing electronic music in particular. When using my DT770's I sometimes felt they were a bit "boring" to work with, but then again I probably didnt amplify them enough. To compensate for the 80hz bump on the phones I COULD just run a good eq on the main track to cut off or flatten the bass a bit I guess. Its more difficult to compensate the other way around, as its difficult to create a good bass response from clinical sounding cans. Anyways, if I DO get those Grados phones there is nothing stopping me from getting additional, more reference ones in the future

In my opinion, the HiFiMAN HE-500 is one of the best deals in the headphone world. It's definitely not a boring sounding can, and in fact, I like it with any music I listen to. Granted, it might not pound out sub bass like a closed back, but it sure cranks out more than a Grado can, and gets some of the most accurate acoustic bass I've heard in a headphone.
Also, just remember that EQ introduces a little extra distortion. If you want more bass, the Audeze LCD-2 is supposed to have some of the best bass in any headphone, especially open ones. Lots of it, and accurate. Granted, it's considered a dark headphone due to the treble roll off, but like you said, EQ could help it out.

 

[Chris Ihao]

In my opinion, the HiFiMAN HE-500 is one of the best deals in the headphone world. It's definitely not a boring sounding can, and in fact, I like it with any music I listen to. Granted, it might not pound out sub bass like a closed back, but it sure cranks out more than a Grado can, and gets some of the most accurate acoustic bass I've heard in a headphone.
Also, just remember that EQ introduces a little extra distortion. If you want more bass, the Audeze LCD-2 is supposed to have some of the best bass in any headphone, especially open ones. Lots of it, and accurate. Granted, it's considered a dark headphone due to the treble roll off, but like you said, EQ could help it out.

Thanks for your feedback man. Yeah, those hifiman cans seem really tempting, but I also like good treble (and my ears, in particular the right one, are so damaged in higher frequency areas I basically need to compensate). Probably the hardest choice I had to make in terms of audio equipment so far, but I do find the price of the Grados extremely tempting. Not often I can get $1250 equipment at 40% off, and they seem to get heck of a lot praise. In terms of bass; I do like good, impactful bass, but have become more and more satisfied with more defined, less boomy bass as I'm getting older. The sub I'm using with my monitors is just barely audible, and I only turn it on with my pedal to get some more punch in the lowest frequencies, and in many cases find the treshold get rid of some of that sub bass (which most people won't hear on their laptops anyways).

The Audeze has been completely off my map, so I'll read up on it a bit now. And yes, I always used to EQ the heck out of stuff, but man how awful extreme EQ'ing sounds to me now. Hehe. Iys like this; you cant just keep adding stuff without removing some. If this was possible in the first place, the damned producer would make it so!

 

[Chris Ihao]

Update: I went to a professional store and listened to the Hifiman HE-500, the Audenze LCD2 and the Grado GS1000i. I found that I actually enjoyed the Grado better than the others, and that indeed the soundstage were more open and exciting to my ears. I found the HE-500 too closed in the upper frequencies while the Audenze also had less "sparkle" and seperation.

HOWEVER, they had a demo model of the PS1000, selling at usd 1040 (originally 1850), so I went all crazy and bought that one after listening! Holy moly, what great cans these are! Looking forward to listening to all the music I ever listened to over again