Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSloth
Seriously though if you love it that's all that counts. But I think those claiming the GS1K to be the greatest can for classical music will be in the minority. Classical music doesn't tolerate additive colouration very well (though you ears might), the problem being that there is such a vast range of tonality that one recording might mesh well with a certain colouration whereas another might sound deafeningly bright with the same colouration. I think what the GS1K might do is expand (artificially, but headphones are artificial either way) the soundstage to give a sense of 'being there'. But from the musicians perspective, it's 'tonality tonality tonality' - that is where the music is, in the fundamental sound.
I think I should compile a list of wonderful classical recordings that will put you off the Grado house sound for life, but for now, if any of you GS1K people have the Abbado/Berlin Phil/DG 2000 recording of Beethoven 6, have a go at the storm movement - maybe even set up a camera to show the moment of ear drum perforation when those Berlin trumpets go crazy... That movement is actually also an excellent example of why that huge but narrow bass hump isn't a great idea for this music - you'll know the celli are playing something fast, but you'll have not the faintest idea exactly what they are playing.
Edit: the title of this thread is very fitting and somewhat ironic.
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TheSloth, I don't want to disagree with you entirely, but would offer come concurring and some dissenting thoughts.
First, I don't remember, have you listened to the GS-1000s? If so, were they broken in?
Second, since I do listen to a lot of classical music, I would concur that the "Grado house sound" as I understand it, is not ideal for full orchestral classical music. Listening to Stravinsky on 325is is not an experience I intend to repeat.
Aside (Reader, if all you care about is the GS-1000 issue, skip this section): I would though, TheSloth, appreciate your input both as listener and as classical musician on the following thought:
Earlier this month, while in the middle of a lot of headphone (and speaker) listening, I went to Boston Symphony Hall for a BSO concert. We heard a modern composition from a Finnish composer (Sorry, I forget her name), a Beethoven Piano Concerto, and Sibelius' 4th symphony. The seats were not accoustically ideal (first balcony/box area- close to stage right,) but they were certainly adequate. Being just behind the Soloist and other visuals were worth the trade off. It had far too long between concerts.
I was expecting to see just how good the clarity and seperation were going to be with real live music in an accoustically excellent venue. I learned a lot. For one thing, when you get a lot of cellos going at once you don't hear each one seperately, you get a composite sound (and a distinctly physical sensation). I learned exactly what to expect of one bass, or one oboe. I would like to observe that classical music, at least when a number of instuments play simultaneously, provides its own coloration derived from the instruments and molded by the venue. Now, when I listen to recorded music, I realize that some of what I thought was veiled or blurred in the music was in fact perfectly accurate.
I guess I think that, sometimes, classical music can stand (and maybe even benefit from) more or less coloration (spice to taste). Also remember that with recorded music, more factors such as the microphones, add additional dimensions. By the time it hits the amp, it is already impure.
Therefore, I can't go along with your statement that classical music doesn't tolerate coloration. Sometimes it does. Anyway, my thought has little to do with Grado's but I would be interested in your take on the theory that all is colored.
3)
[Back to GS-1000s]I am currently burning in a pair of GS-1000s so my statements on them are qualified. My usual classical cans are balanced 650s, unbalaced 650s and 701s.
4) "Classical music", I am sure you would agree, is a pretty broad term. I find that Chamber Music, and some Jazz sound great on some Grado's including, and especially, the GS-1000s. I'm not sure that I'm wording this correctly, but when the music is less "dense or challenging" or more "intimate" the Grado GS-1000s sound excellent. They simply put you closer to the music, as you would be if you were listening to it in a smaller space or at a closer distance. The instruments sound real. Too be sure, sometimes "real" is not as smooth as I would like (e.g. with some pianos).
5) I have yet to hear with the GS-1000s, even before burn in, the (call it what you will) "grado sound"; sibilant highs, or "spike". The music, and it is easier to tell with chamber music" (see number 4), not only sounds good but it sounds accurate. Piano music, (again premature) may also sound extremely accurate. For all I know, full orchestral music may sound more accurate when the phones are burned in. Bottom line, I'm not ready to concede that the GS-1000s don't sound tonally accurate (graph notwithstanding), or at least as accurate overall as other "classical" phones.
6) Finally, I'll admit that I would prefer to sit in the 8-12th row orchestra center. For some classical, I prefer to be seated at a little distance and will go with the 650s or the 701s. But, when I do, I wonder if the smoother 650s aren't coloring the sound and changeing the bottom.
7) My conclusion is that I am not ready to concede that the GS-1000s aren't accurate when you listen to them. I assert with no reservations so far that, to me, the problems I had with harsh highs on other Grado phones is gone with the GS-1000s. I have yet, in my inexperience, to hear any phone that satisfies me as to the near perfect accuracy of its base. So the GS-1000 could just be one different compromise on bass (650: possibly muddy, veiled, too mush bass / 701: too lean, highs also not perfect,).
8) Therefore, I don't see how you can assert categorically that the GS-1000s aren't great classical cans or that those who think they are will be in the minority. But mine aren't burned in, I am not claiming that they are better than my other phones for classical, and I am not taking their cost into account. But I can use them to listen to Stravinsky without pain. I would say that they are, to date, much better at classical music than I would have believed. To me, it is a delightul surprise and a bonus. But, if I were to be allowed only one pair of headphones for classical music, I don't know if I would choose these. Let us, however, give them at least a couple of hundred additional hours breaking in before I am sure about anything. .
Finally, TheSloth, I wouldn't have imposed on you but since you offered: please, please do:
a) Put together a list of classical recordings that will put me off the Grado Sound. Thy need to be available. I would prefer if the list were limited to recordings you actually like, and to recordings that won't put me off other headphones. Vinyl or CD is fine.
b) add a separate list, of recordings that you think are great period, and that you might use just to listen non-critically. I always look for recommendations from those who know, and you did offer.
c) suggest 10 (or some manageable number) of "Head-Fi" standards. They should be redbook CDs Maybe we could get one or more of our sponsors to stock the set. Even better is to order a 2CD set (which is , legal, royalty paying, licened etc) so that we could have an easily obtainable common vocabulary when we compare equipment.
What do you think?
