[Spork67]

I try not to listen too loud - conserving what remains of my hearing.
With TH-X00 I seldom needed it past 84-86 (that was LOUD)
ATH-AD900x around the same.
HE-400i was 90-94 (max).
T1G1 - mid 80's.
 
These are all for "crank it up" volumes.
 
Normal listening was often done in the 60's, or 70s-80s for the planars.
 
It's a brilliant DAC for $500, and a perfectly adequate amp for easy to drive HPs.
 
The aftermarket tubes in my tiube amp cost almost as much as the grace on their own - I'd expect that amp to sound better.
Haven't used the Schiit gear, so can't comment on how it compares to the Grace.

 

[mandrake50]

For the THX-00 HE 400i, Oppo PM-3 or HP50 my typical listening levels are 55 to 70.
I listen to the HE 560 at up to 75 to maybe 80. Now this is not "cranking it"  maybe 75 to 80 DB out of the phones.
 
BTW I am pretty sure that I read that the high power section does not come into play until 90+ setting.
 
Be careful when you hear people relating volume control settings to amplifier output. While they are related, there is not even close to a 100% correlation. Input levels must be considered. As an example an amp with a very low input signal might have it's volume control maxed out, but only be delivering a fraction of it's rated output.  An amp driven with double or triple the input levels might make the amp clip at half volume. Then the volume taper or curve for the volume control has to be considered as well ( a good reason to not compare volume settings of two different amps to determine which has more power available). In other words the volume control is set does not necessarily have a direct relationship with available output power. There are other several factors to consider.
 
To me, the only criteria to use is whether the amp can deliver your desired level of output with no discernible distortion, If it does that, it really doesn't matter where the volume control is set.
(not talking SQ here, simply power output)
 
I have yet to listen to any headphones on the M9X where it did not satisfy the above criteria.  I haven't used it with my HE 1000 nor tried it with an HE6, nor a T1. I should bring it home and see what it does with the HEK.
 
The M9xx has lots of volume adjustment. I have always thought that this was to accommodate high sensitivity IEMs. This means that it needs to be run higher on the volume scale. It does not mean that it has less power than any other amp in it's class.
 
I have yet to listen to any headphones on the M9X where it did not satisfy the above criteria.  I haven't used it with my HE 1000 nor tried it with an HE6, nor a T1. I should bring it home and see what it does with the HEK.
 
One final thought, to those running the M9XX at 90+ through headphones  considered to have "normal" sensitivity and with close to  full input signals... I hope they enjoy their music today, because if they keep it up, they won't be able to in a few years.

 

[Zelcroft]

 
These do drop fairly regularly, though you may also want to look at the classifieds.

 
Don't quote me on this but it feels as though the current drop is the 3rd of 4th one this year. To think I jumped on the drop earlier in the year thinking it might be the last. 

 

[sheldaze]

  So what would you guys do if you had five bills now... Grace or Schiit? I am not planning to drive hard headphones... Just things like Sennheiser HD600. I am confused at it clearly seems that Shiit is a better amp, but my guess is that HD600 should be just fine with Grace and better DAC is more important in my particular case. Would greatly appreciate your opinions...

I don't want to confuse things, but would like to answer with my opinion:
 

1. If you're going stack, I would get an Asgard 2 and a Modi Multibit.
2. If you're going one box, I would choose the Grace Design m9xx.

 
I personally compared the Modi 2 Uber, which has the 4490 chip. versus the Grace Design m9xx. I was rather shocked to learn that the Grace implementation was (to my ears) better. It is not your standard off the shelf use of the 4490. However, it is still my opinion that the non-off-shelf chips provide manufacturers a means to get even better sound from different implementations. The FPGA in the Chord products and the Moffat filter in the Multbit both come to mind. I used the Modi Multibit in that same comparison and found its sound to be even better.
 
Though I used the Magni 2 Uber as the amplifier during my testing, I have owned and quite enjoyed the Asgard 2, particularly with my HD650. So by extension, I would conclude it may be worth the money (if you have five bills) to use the Asgard 2 with your HD600 instead of the Magni 2 Uber. You could save a few dollars and get a stack that looks like it was meant to go together, Modi Multibit and Magni 2 Uber. But I still stand by my opinion, the Asgard 2 is better.
 
So for five bills the Grace is very good!
But if you have the space, don't mind the additional RCA cables, power brick for the Modi Multibit, mixing and matching of the different sized boxes, you can probably do better with a stack.

 

[fjrabon]

Thank you for your detailed answer. My intention is to pair it with the HD800S or Beyerdynamic T1 2nd generation. Is it a goood match for these flagship headphones or should I be looking for other options to get the best out of these headphones?

Does Massdrop offer these on sale on a regular basis?

I like my m9XX a lot with my HD800.  No, it's not quite as good as my Torpedo III and iDAC6 with the HD800, but it's $2000 cheaper than that pair (the way I have them configured).  I think it's even better with the HD800S than the HD800, the couple of times I've heard that pairing (the first time was courtesy of Sheldaze IIRC).  
 
I've never cared for the T1, so can't comment there.

 

[Here2rock]

  The m9xx has a very good implementation of the 4490 DAC chip, using custom filters from Grace Design. It can be used as a DAC, a very good DAC, and a DAC/AMP for most headphones. It is small, has almost no sonic character of its own. It has no "house" sound or odd staging. It has no warmup issues. I am definitely keeping mine for listening, and as a tool when I need a simple source. I think there was a lot of good design choice made for the Grace, and people do not shout or sing its praises enough. It is quite the competent little box.

 
You are pushing me towards pulling the triger, what is your favourite headphones to go with it?

 

[Here2rock]

  So what would you guys do if you had five bills now... Grace or Shiit? I am not planning to drive hard headphones... Just things like Sennheiser HD600. I am confused at it clearly seems that Shiit is a better amp, but my guess is that HD600 should be just fine with Grace and better DAC is more important in my particular case. Would greatly appreciate your opinions...

You are not the only one, we are in the same boat as it seems. 

 

[Here2rock]

  I try not to listen too loud - conserving what remains of my hearing.
With TH-X00 I seldom needed it past 84-86 (that was LOUD)
ATH-AD900x around the same.
HE-400i was 90-94 (max).
T1G1 - mid 80's.
 
These are low impedance headphones, I am just concerned it's ability to drive higher impedance headphones. I am also not looking to stack different units on my desk, I am intending to use it only as a one and only box on my desktop use. I see it is a wonderful DAC from reading the comments above but as an AMP it seems to lack the power.   

 

[Here2rock]

 
I like my m9XX a lot with my HD800.  No, it's not quite as good as my Torpedo III and iDAC6 with the HD800, but it's $2000 cheaper than that pair (the way I have them configured).  I think it's even better with the HD800S than the HD800, the couple of times I've heard that pairing (the first time was courtesy of Sheldaze IIRC).  
 
I've never cared for the T1, so can't comment there.

 
That's very interesting that HD800S sounds good on this.
 
How is it compare to something like Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies? Is that a totally different class considering it costs twice as much at least?

 

[Here2rock]

I only have 9 hours to make a decision!

 

[Spork67]

Originally Posted by Here2rock /img/forum/go_quote.gif
These are low impedance headphones, I am just concerned it's ability to drive higher impedance headphones. I am also not looking to stack different units on my desk, I am intending to use it only as a one and only box on my desktop use. I see it is a wonderful DAC from reading the comments above but as an AMP it seems to lack the power.   

  I try not to listen too loud - conserving what remains of my hearing.
With TH-X00 I seldom needed it past 84-86 (that was LOUD)
ATH-AD900x around the same.
HE-400i was 90-94 (max).
T1G1 - mid 80's.
 
 

T1 is 600z... that's about as impeded as HPs get.
The little grace drives them perfectly well - but like @fjrabon and his Torpedo they do sound even better from an amp worth considerably more, with the Grace doing duties as the DAC.

 

[fjrabon]

That's very interesting that HD800S sounds good on this.

How is it compare to something like Woo Audio WA7 Fireflies? Is that a totally different class considering it costs twice as much at least?

I wasn't a big fan of the fireflies. I wanted to like it, because I think it's gorgeous. But I just didn't.

 

[Here2rock]

  T1 is 600z... that's about as impeded as HPs get.
The little grace drives them perfectly well - but like @fjrabon and his Torpedo they do sound even better from an amp worth considerably more, with the Grace doing duties as the DAC.

The question is how much better, considerably more?

 

[Here2rock]

I wasn't a big fan of the fireflies. I wanted to like it, because I think it's gorgeous. But I just didn't.

 
What did you not like about the Fireflies? How does m9XX sound different to it?

 

[fjrabon]

What did you not like about the Fireflies? How does m9XX sound different to it?

It's been a while since I tried the fireflies, so take everything I'm about to say with a huge grain of salt, because this is all based off memory of a relatively short demo. My memory of the fireflies was that it lacked soundstage, got blurry during intense complicated fast passages and was a little brittle in the treble.