[Magick Man]

It's not the right fit for the HD800 or 1st gen T1, but that's due to the amp section, not the DAC. It drives them fine but they're both better served with higher impedance amps. The HD800S, OTOH, is excellent out of m9XX, they work very well together.

Totally disagree here. I'm sure you may prefer a different sound, or may prefer a higher impedance output amp for those headphones, but that doesn't make that amp better serve those headphones. The M9XX is stunning.

Friend, I'm not putting down the m9XX, mine are great (both of them, one at work and the other at home), it's simply not perfect with all headphones I've tried, though that list is very short. The old HD800 and the 1st gen T1 simply aren't a good match with it, especially not the HD800 (which is at its best with a high-quality balanced tube amp, like the Balancing Act). The 800S is a different matter altogether, it actually synergizes with the m9XX, which was surprising given their high resistance.

 

[Nitemare3219]

So i just got the HD800 S - an interesting comparison between it and my AKG K812. The K812 is definitely a great option for the price I paid on Massdrop ($800), but I immediately noticed the 800 S has a larger soundstage - something I really appreciate. The 800 S feels and looks a lot more premium too, and I noticed some additional detail over the 812 - it looks like the 800 S is the winner for me, but at a tune of twice the price I can't say it's really a better value at all. The K812 is fantastic, especially because with such low impedance you can appreciate it with almost any device - but it just seems to slightly get bested by Sennheiser.

I'm currently using a Schiit Uber stack to power them both. It seems to easily power the HD800 S, but I know the stack is a cheap DAC/amp combo, and can't help but feel like it should be treated with something better.

I snagged a m9XX from a member here which I'll have next week, but I'm hoping it'll be powerful enough to drive it. I saw someone here mentioned it was a fantastic pairing with the 800 S, strangely better than the older 800? Either way I'm just hoping it'll be a somewhat noticeable improvement. I tend to EQ my lower bass up a bit because I enjoy some additional slam. The Schiit stack does this without issue - any idea if the m9XX might struggle here? Will it even be a worthwhile upgrade from the Schiit stack?

 

[Solarium]

Friend, I'm not putting down the m9XX, mine are great (both of them, one at work and the other at home), it's simply not perfect with all headphones I've tried, though that list is very short. The old HD800 and the 1st gen T1 simply aren't a good match with it, especially not the HD800 (which is at its best with a high-quality balanced tube amp, like the Balancing Act). The 800S is a different matter altogether, it actually synergizes with the m9XX, which was surprising given their high resistance.

I thought the m9XX was built for the HD800. Why does higher impedance phones sound bad with a low impedance amp? How does it sound like? That balancing act is a $4000 amp, and I would not be spending that amount of money... ever. What's a good sub $500 alternative? And if I do end up having to get another amp for the HD800/T1, would I be better off getting a cheaper alternative DAC than the m9XX like the 4490? I feel like I'm just going in circles here lol. 

 

[shigzeo]

Friend, I'm not putting down the m9XX, mine are great (both of them, one at work and the other at home), it's simply not perfect with all headphones I've tried, though that list is very short. The old HD800 and the 1st gen T1 simply aren't a good match with it, especially not the HD800 (which is at its best with a high-quality balanced tube amp, like the Balancing Act). The 800S is a different matter altogether, it actually synergizes with the m9XX, which was surprising given their high resistance.

And again, I disagree. You are talking about personal experience, I am not. Since there is no accounting for personal experience, one person may say the HD800 needs this amp, another say it needs this amp - both will say that without the amp they like, it sounds thin or hollow, or reedy, or doesn't perform well. Then there is the simple matter that at normal to loud listening levels, amps like the m9XX drive it pretty much perfectly. This can be measured in a controlled environment. You may not like the way the combo sounds, but means nothing more than a Leica fan saying that they don't like the way a Canon renders blue. So what?

I also enjoy the sound of tube amps with a variety of headphones. But that doesn't mean the headphone is driven better by those amps. Reality doesn't conform to anyone's opinions.

 

[lvince95]

 
And again, I disagree. You are talking about personal experience, I am not. Since there is no accounting for personal experience, one person may say the HD800 needs this amp, another say it needs this amp - both will say that without the amp they like, it sounds thin or hollow, or reedy, or doesn't perform well. Then there is the simple matter that at normal to loud listening levels, amps like the m9XX drive it pretty much perfectly. This can be measured in a controlled environment. You may not like the way the combo sounds, but means nothing more than a Leica fan saying that they don't like the way a Canon renders blue. So what?

I also enjoy the sound of tube amps with a variety of headphones. But that doesn't mean the headphone is driven better by those amps. Reality doesn't conform to anyone's opinions.

 
You're right, but I'm pretty sure personal experience is what matter the most especially so in this hobby. If he doesn't like what he hears, he should feel free to express it and he would be just as right as any of us are. That is the nature of this hobby. Should we not have any discussion at all, since almost all sound impressions are 99% subjective?
 
Otherwise everyone should just get a Magni 2 since it would be able to drive most cans except for the HE-6, and no other amps will drive cans better than the Magni 2 according to your line of thought (that is, the Magni 2 will be on par with something like the Ragnarok depending on the headphones you pair it with). 
 
The reality is that this most other amps in the higher price ranges will sound better than the Magni 2. Even though the Magni 2 can drive cans perfectly and do its job, other amps sound better and that's all I care about.
 
This is something you can't measure, because in theory and based on the power specs, I should like the m9XX with the cans I have, but I don't.

 

[shigzeo]

   
You're right, but I'm pretty sure personal experience is what matter the most especially so in this hobby. If he doesn't like what he hears, he should feel free to express it and he would be just as right as any of us are. That is the nature of this hobby. Should we not have any discussion at all, since almost all sound impressions are 99% subjective?
 
Otherwise everyone should just get a Magni 2 since it would be able to drive most cans except for the HE-6, and no other amps will drive cans better than the Magni 2 according to your line of thought (that is, the Magni 2 will be on par with something like the Ragnarok depending on the headphones you pair it with). 
 
The reality is that this most other amps in the higher price ranges will sound better than the Magni 2. Even though the Magni 2 can drive cans perfectly and do its job, other amps sound better and that's all I care about.
 
This is something you can't measure, because in theory and based on the power specs, I should like the m9XX with the cans I have, but I don't.

Of course a person should listen to what they want. I've said so many times: I prefer listening to the LinnenberG Maestro fed from a Lynx HILO. There is no hardware metric that will put it ahead of the m9xx, but I prefer it. But authoritative statements such as: 'not a good match' or 'better SQ' etc., are simply misleading. If the only thing that matters is personal bias and testimony, why are we even giving our opinions? Do I tell you what flavour of icecream is best for you for the simple reason that I like it better? No. I say that I like it. End of story. This idea that the subjective trumps the objective and that regarding subjective opinions we can use authoritative language and proscriptions is tosh. 

Again: I prefer using the LinnenberG / HILO combo over the m9XX for a number of reasons, none of which make the combo better. 

 

[Magick Man]

Friend, I'm not putting down the m9XX, mine are great (both of them, one at work and the other at home), it's simply not perfect with all headphones I've tried, though that list is very short. The old HD800 and the 1st gen T1 simply aren't a good match with it, especially not the HD800 (which is at its best with a high-quality balanced tube amp, like the Balancing Act). The 800S is a different matter altogether, it actually synergizes with the m9XX, which was surprising given their high resistance.

I thought the m9XX was built for the HD800. Why does higher impedance phones sound bad with a low impedance amp? How does it sound like? That balancing act is a $4000 amp, and I would not be spending that amount of money... ever. What's a good sub $500 alternative? And if I do end up having to get another amp for the HD800/T1, would I be better off getting a cheaper alternative DAC than the m9XX like the 4490? I feel like I'm just going in circles here lol. 

Good sub-$500 alternative? The Schiit Valhalla 2 does a great job with the HD800 (and the HD800S, too).

 

[Magick Man]

And again, I disagree. You are talking about personal experience, I am not.

Yeah... right. :rolleyes: Moving right along.

 

[fuzzybaffy]

All I'm going to say is... it's fine to express one's own opinions, but it's very easy for people to express them as objective fact, and that's where the issue lies. There is a difference between saying "I like amp A more than B" and "Amp A is better than B". One is a subjective opinion, the other is not. 

 

[Craig T]

I've been living with this thing for awhile so I thought I'd offer up my take.  Primary use is in my office splitting time between feeding powered monitors (KRK Rokit5) and headphones (Senn HD650 and MrS Ether).  I also compared it to my Schiit Bifrost Uber > Lyr2 stack at home.  I listen at moderate levels and typically find myself in the upper 80s, low 90s gain on the Grace and about noon on the Lyr2.  As a DAC/pre feeding monitors, the form/function of the Grace scores high.  The big scroll wheel for volume and menu is easy to navigate.  Push for mute is great when the phone rings and I quickly need to stop the jam for a few minutes.  Small footprint fits easily on my messy desk.  I think as a DAC the presentation is very neutral and detailed.  WORLDS better than the internal soundcard of my desktop computer (Dell/Windows PC, no idea what's in it) - no surprise there.  I find it to be resolving of detail, with good dynamics and 3D image.  Low end is very controlled, but not with a lot of weight in the mid-bass (no sub, so the monitors don't reach super low).  On headphones, I prefer the Schiit stack.  Bigger and more enveloping soundstage, a little more weight in the low end, with just as much detail.  Not sure how much of that improvement to attribute to the Bifrost or Lyr2.  The Grace is transportable, the Schiit stack is not, so it's nice that you can toss the Grace in the suitcase when travelling.  I think it hits a good $/performance ratio.  I'm very satisfied with the purchase and see it staying in my system for a long time.

 

[Nitemare3219]

so it's nice that you can toss the Grace in the suitcase when travelling.  I think it hits a good $/performance ratio.  I'm very satisfied with the purchase and see it staying in my system for a long time.

Can you define the portability? I've seen several people mention it, but with hungry cans I'm wondering how. Portable in the sense that it's easy to pick up and go? Because as far as I can tell you'd definitely still need a wall outlet to up the amplification for something like Senns - correct?

On that note, I wonder if a portable high output, high capacity battery pack (that people use for charging phones/tablets) could effectively and SAFELY power the m9XX to truly make it "portable"? I'm guessing that setup would look something like a laptop... the m9XX... battery pack... and finally the headphones. Not to mention the jungle of cables you'd have going on LOL.

 

[Craig T]

Can you define the portability? 

 
I said trans-portable.  My headphones aren't what I'd consider power hungry and I get good results using it usb powered from a laptop without running in high-power mode.  You are correct in that to run in high-power mode, you'd need a 5V-USB battery (tons of small, cheap options) or plug in AC.  The Grace plus a USB cable isn't what I'd consider a mess of cables.

 

[Solarium]

Good sub-$500 alternative? The Schiit Valhalla 2 does a great job with the HD800 (and the HD800S, too).

Does the Valhalla 2 make the sound more tube like? I like the Lyr 2 because it's sounds neutral. What makes you choose Valhalla 2 over Lyr 2?

 

[EinZweiDrei]

Does the Valhalla 2 make the sound more tube like? I like the Lyr 2 because it's sounds neutral. What makes you choose Valhalla 2 over Lyr 2?

it mostly depends on the tube. lyr 2 is probably more tube like than valhalla 2 despite valhalla 2 being a OTL.

 

[Solarium]

it mostly depends on the tube. lyr 2 is probably more tube like than valhalla 2 despite valhalla 2 being a OTL.

Really? I don't find Lyr 2 to be tube like much. How about the stock Valhalla 2 tubes? Does it make the HD800 slower and a smaller soundstage though? I had a Vali before which I paired with a HD650, and I absolutely hated that combo since it just made the 650 more gooey and claustrophobic. Ever since then I avoided tube amps.