[johncarm]

"Bassheads" are usually thought of as listening to rock or similar music, but I find that good bass, both powerful and tight with good pitch delineation, is critical in classical music. It's the foundation of the harmony, and good equipment makes it a joy and a revelation. 
 
Often classical recordings are light or wimpy in the bass, which is apparently not the primary focus of some engineers. The all-time "most disappointing bass" is on track 4 of the EMI Klemperer Brahms Requiem, which is a fugue over what is supposed to be a glorious pedal tone... the pedal tone is barely audible. What were they thinking???? The rest of the CD is good, though, even in the bass.
 
John

 

[johncarm]

Nobody wants to talk about bass in classical music?
 
I would just be curious, among other things, about how often other people find that bass is well-recorded in classical recordings.

 

[Claritas]

It could be the gear: classically-tuned headphones used to have rolled off lows. The new flagships since 2009 don't.

 

[johncarm]

It could be the gear: classically-tuned headphones used to have rolled off lows. The new flagships since 2009 don't.

Not sure which thing you are referring to... the pedal tone in this Brahms recording is definitely missing in neutral equipment or in my LCD-2.. the strange thing is that on other movements in this recording the bass is there. I just don't know what the engineers or Klemperer was thinking.

 

[Claritas]

Maybe it's there on the LP but was badly transferred.

 

[johncarm]

Maybe so, but that underscores my point that the bass is hit and miss in classical recordings, while in the grand topic of classical music itself, the role of bass instruments are critical. Providing everything from the foundation of the harmony (at all times) to spectacular effects (at more spectacular times).
 
That Brahms Require pedal tone is quite spectacular.

 

[johncarm]

Wow, I can't tell if no one wants to talk about bass in classical music because there's just not much interest here in classical music, or if classical lovers haven't been turned on to the bass yet (one gets that feeling from how generally unimpressive classical recordings are in the bass -- although good playback equipment can make up for that.)

 

[Claritas]

Maybe it's a headphones vs. speakers issue. Headphone listeners have lower expectations about this, except for bassheads and they seldom listen to classical.

Classical listeners care about bass but they tend to care about other aspects more. I think it's a fair generalization to say that many classical listeners are soundstageheads, which is why HD800 is so popular with them even though it's brighter. Or they favor a clean, fast sound and go for Stax. There is a subgroup of the classical crowd that likes Audezes for orchestral music (including vkalia, I think).

I'm not picky about any particular frequency range or effect; it's more that I want something that won't piss me off. If I have to choose, I go for mids even I lose the outer limits.

I'll mention this topic in the classical thread because I'd like to hear others' opinions and conjectures too.

 

[vkalia]

I agree with the OP and @Claritas - a good, realistic bass response is what gives weight and timbral accuracy to a lot of instruments.    
 
I think this whole "classical music requires air" claptrap comes from those who listen to baroque/chamber music or other small ensembles - cos an orchestra at full thunder has enveloping, reverbing bass and warm highs:  quite the opposite of the "clear treble, rolled off highs" ideal that so many people seem to ascribe to headphones that are good for classical.   
 
Most rock and EDM rarely goes past 50-60Hz.    Organs are one of the few instruments that plumb the bottoms of the last octaves - the sound of bassoons, double bassoons and even cellos gains timbral accuracy with proper* bass, not that polite, rolled off cr*p that is touted as the reference by people who listen to classical music on Harbeth or Spendor or other monitor bookshelves.
 
*By proper bass, I do not mean "tight" bass.  I have no idea what tight bass is cos I have never heard it live.   Organs dont sound tight and controlled - they fill the room, they shake your innards, they STAY in the room reminding you of their presence.      That is not the same as an exaggerated bass response, though - the impact is in the time dimension, not the amplitude dimension.   And this is sort of where all headphones, due to their very nature, get let down.   Because they do not have the benefit of room acoustics, they are unable to provide that last bit of timbral accuracy (when using the live sound as reference, as opposed to accuracy of reproduction).  
 
Still, the LCD2s are about as good as it gets here - the Oppo PM1s come close, but are a little on the polite side and lack the same dynamic impact;  the HD650s also come close but lack a little something in the transient response compared to the LCD2s.   I have the HD800s.  I enjoy them with several types of music.   Orchestral music is not one of them, however.   
 
However, to put this in context, I am unabashedly in the "my fi", not "hi fi" camp.  I know what live music sounds like, and I gravitate to systems that reproduce that more realistically  to my ears.     That means warm, somewhat attenuated treble, a modest bump in the higher bass/lower midrange (in headphones) and deep bass.

 

[SunTanScanMan]

I do agree on the importance of the bass in classical music as stated in the previous posts. However, I don't think I've been as dissatisfied with the level of the bass in what I listen to, or I should say, the thought never crossed my mind. It is nevertheless an interesting topic.
 
Just so that I can get a rough reference to the level of bass that we may be talking about, could the OP suggest a recording which he thinks has an ideal amount of bass?
 
Personally I place less importance on soundstage than others. It's nice, but I prefer the music to be more upfront. E.g. Comparing the sound (and not the musical interpretation) of Beethoven's Pastoral, I prefer Blomstedt/Staatskapelle Dresden version over the Karajan/Berliner (60s version). The strings sound bolder and more powerful in the former version, at least to my ears on my setup.
 
I think baroque and chamber music can have decent low end presence.
Beethoven's Razumovsky by the Borodin quartet, Vivaldi's Viola da Gamba concertos - Jordi Savall (also his Mozart Serenate Notturne) 
 
---
 
I have desktop speakers but I almost always use headphones in consideration of neighbours - mostly with the t1 or w5000. I enjoy classical most on the latter, as I feel it produces better timbre of the instruments. 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Moved post :
 
Well, I  don't think that classical musical is for what they call here "bass head".
Perhaps a classical music piece  that use didgeridoo would be enough "bassy".
Found this example on youtube:
 
 

 

[mironathetin]

I agree with the OP: bass in classical is an essential part of the music. In a concert hall, the contrabasses usually transfer so much energy, that the air vibrates (including the body). This cannot happen with a headphone. My HD 800 have a nice low frequency representation, but the real impact of the bass must be imagined.
I doubt that it is missing on the recordings, though. Usually classical recordings are the best mastered recordings available (except the stuff that you buy in the drug store of course with titles like "romantic blabla"). 
Certainly the headphone amp must have the necessary power. Mine does not have it (earmax silver). I tried the Leben CS300 and 600. They seemed to have a bit more power in the low end, but they also both hummed.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Never been in a concert hall, this might why the idea of noticeable bass  in classical seems outlandish to me.

 

[mironathetin]

  Never been in a concert hall, this might why the idea of noticeable bass  in classical seems outlandish to me.

Something for the todo list...
 
Eh ...  how can you discuss about music or about sound, if you never heard, how it actually sounds?

 

[extrabigmehdi]

 
  how can you discuss about music or about sound, if you never heard, how it actually sounds?

You wouldn't use this argument for plenty of  other genres. Is there a particular "reference" associated to techno ?