[mewrei]

I think you have me all wrong

I'm certainly not knocking on tubes (I'm building a CTH specifically for experimenting with them). I'm just saying in general people who like tubes tend to prefer the "warmth" of a tube amp, just as a very conspicuous example, not that they alone prefer colored audio, but they have the more prominent opinion of the superiority of tube amps due to this aspect of them and there's nothing wrong with that!

 

[regal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mewrei /img/forum/go_quote.gif I think you have me all wrong I'm certainly not knocking on tubes (I'm building a CTH specifically for experimenting with them). I'm just saying in general people who like tubes tend to prefer the "warmth" of a tube amp, just as a very conspicuous example, not that they alone prefer colored audio, but they have the more prominent opinion of the superiority of tube amps due to this aspect of them and there's nothing wrong with that!

There are warm tube amps, there are cold tube amps, there are warm SS amps there are cold SS amps. Hopefully you are coming here to learn with an open mind, don't take offense we are just trying to educate you.

In general SS amps have a high open loop gain and a lot of NFB, some like this sound, others don't. But not all SS amps are designed this way (CKIII and N. Pass amps being some of them.) People use the term "colored" to describe a sound they aren't used to, and mostly all the post 70's generations grew up listeing to high NFB so anything else sounds "colored". This is how we got this myth.

Good thing about head-fi is a lot of us have open minds about audio and we consumers are getting smarter.

 

[BenAdamson]

Hmm, ok. Thanks for hijacking my thread guys

But anyway, what exactly is "open loop gain" and "NFB"?

 

[Juaquin]

Wikipedia explains it better than I can: negative feedback and open-loop gain.

I'd also make the argument that all amps have their own distinct color - that's why we use different ones and have more than 1 sitting on our desk. So, IMO, both tubes and SS are "colored" - in different ways. You can argue about technical differences and "educate" people but it really all comes down to what your personal ears hear.

 

[BenAdamson]

Hmm, interesting.

 

[nikongod]

there is quite a lot behind the feedback &gain arguments, for both sides.

I would put out the recommendation for a Cmoy amp. If nothing else, they can be built on a fairly restrictive budget, and are a great platform to learn stuff like casework and soldering.

 

[bhjazz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by regal /img/forum/go_quote.gif This is just simply not true. For the OP if you want to start in DIYaudio read the Millett Max thread, huge support, wonderful uncolored amp that will put you 95% of any amp.

I'll jump in with Regal on this one. I had my MHSS on the other night and was again surprised at how relaxed and natural the sound was. Connected directly to my CD/SACD player, and listening to the live Clint Eastwood Afterhours CD, the music was real, the audience was clapping their fleshy hands, and all the pieces of the recording fit together. Try some tube amps for yourself and see.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Juaquin /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd also make the argument that all amps have their own distinct color - that's why we use different ones and have more than 1 sitting on our desk.

Well put. Yes.

 

[BenAdamson]

So is the CMoy the way to go for a very simple start? SHould I go for the Millet hybrid maxed? :s
I am currently taking GCSE electronics, so I do already have a fairly basic understanding of circuitry. I don't really have any tools at home ATM, what websites would be cheap for uk electronics kit?
Thanks,
Ben

 

[Beftus]

Making a cmoy is kind of rite of passage according to some. They're indeed very easy to make especially if you buy a ready made PCB like the excellent cmoybb.

Or you can jump right in and make something a bit more advanced like I did. I started with a dual mono LM3886 chipamp and then made a mini Aleph. After that I made a start with an F5 amp and a B1 buffer. Made two cmoybb's and last week I finished my Mini³.

 

[nikongod]

Quote:

Originally Posted by BenAdamson /img/forum/go_quote.gif So is the CMoy the way to go for a very simple start? SHould I go for the Millet hybrid maxed? :s

The various millet hybrids are awesome. So are the other DIY amps that are currently popular.
The question to ask is not whether you should build it but whether you can build it. That is the key but only you can answer it. If you are happy with your odds that it will come out right build something better than a Cmoy.

If you are not confident that you can build it can you afford to throw the bulk of the money spent on the amp away if you cant troubleshoot or repair it? Its the sucky reality of this that nobody likes to talk about. As you get better at building stuff the likelyhood of this happening decreases, but its something you should ALWAYS keep in your mind.

The nice thing about a cmoy in that regard is that if you are suitably frugal you can build one for like $30 before you account for an altoids tin to put it in. Its still a bit of cash so you should be careful, but at the same time its not as much as the various board-stuffing DIY projects. You will also learn more about layout and testing from a perfboard cmoy (or anything you perfboard or point to point) than by stuffing a PCB.

It is great news that the board files and schematics for all of those amps are freely available, check them out if they interest you. There is plenty to learn from them.

 

[BenAdamson]

I think I'll probably stick with the cmoy as my 1st attempt, and if I find it fun, I'll go on to bigger and better things such as the Millet hybrids.
Thanks everyone who posted, you're all awesome!

 

[DonCarr]

Hey Ben
 
Let me know how you get on with that, Ive been looking at making a cmoy amp for a while now and seem to have the same basic understanding, I found a great video on youtube if you seen it already http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-7PMvGZsFo 
 
I think it seems straight forward enough with a little paitence, the video helps to get a visual overview of whats happening.
 
Not sure the best UK place to get the bits and bobs required either though...

 

[DonCarr]

Great links cheers!

 

[DonCarr]

 

[BenAdamson]

Thanks for the youtube vid DonCarr. I might follow it.