[12thgear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by roosta /img/forum/go_quote.gif explain to me how you can have 5.1 or 7.1 headphones. 4 drivers in 1 ear, 3 in the other? big one strapped to the back of your head? think about it. how can you fit 3 drivers in a single ear cup? 3 tiny drivers? great sound resolution and range they will give you.

Yes there are some multi-driver models out there. They're quite large and have 3 drivers per side firing directly at, in front of, and behind the ear. This gives a better 360 degree positional effect than a conventional two driver headphone setup.

However, the ones I've tried have been focused on gaming. You get superior positional audio, but the sound quality is strictly average. And that's average by typical consumer standards, not audiophile.

 

[12thgear]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingStyles /img/forum/go_quote.gif You only have two ears right? But they are able to perceive the surround sound of a 5.1 speaker setup right? Your ears are able to perceive the surround sound by the different volumes and different timings of the signals getting to your ears. If a computer is able to recreate the different timing and volume and output it through your stereo headphones, your brain wont know the difference between two channels and 5.1. All the sound from 5 speakers are 2 headphone drivers all have to hit and go down the same two ears, two canals, and be translated by the same two eardrums, and perceived by the same brain. The only flaw is the equation that is used to determine the dsp might not be best suited for the way it is going to channel into you ears. In which case you may not perceive the surround sound correctly. For others like me, it works beautifully.

Something like Dolby Headphone is neat and creates an approximation of surround sound, but it's not the same. It reminds me of a speaker array (so-called "surround bars") that reflects sound off walls and processes the audio so it feels like it envelopes you. It works, but you lose a lot of precision. When it comes to speakers, I'll take discrete 5.1 and 7.1 setups every time unless the room can't accommodate. Nobody has made hi-fidelity 5.1 cans, so I guess I'll take the DSP.

 

[Silverion77]

I love how this person even admits how hes never tried them but says how much more superior they are....

First off all 5.1/7.1 or almost all gaming headphones are utter crap quality. 2 friends I have have barracudas, and in one 2 speakers went out and the other the subwoofer BLEW right on his head. A third has i believe some Tritons and in 2 weeks some plastic came off...

Secondly, people have even stated that its not necessarily the audio positioning, but the audio quality. Better headphones provide so much more detail that its much easier to discern different sounds...especially footsteps

Also, idk where u get no front and back from. Ive started using my K27i supra-aurals (no where near good) because my headset broke and can easily discern front and back now. I even tested with my friends and had them run down a hallway to my right (closed off) and in other areas and could easily tell where they were. Up and down is a different story, but these headphones arent considered the best when it comes to soundstage.

So once u figure in the build quality and sound quality, i would absolutely agree that good headphones are better than 5.1s

 

[kraychik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingStyles /img/forum/go_quote.gif Everybodys ears are different. We all perceive sound differently. The equations used in dsp 5.1 are for the "average" ear. Its works great for some and not so great for others. Different cans also make a difference in this perceived staging of positions. For me, the dsp with my astro mixamp through any headphone Ive hooked up have been easy to discern where the sound is coming from front to back included. The cans will change how big the stage is, the dsp/amp will posistion the sounds appropriately 360 degrees on that stage. Also, you need to listen to the dsp/cans for a good few days for your brain to adjust to the dsp produced sound. Its not always apparent just trying it out for a couple of minutes. Just like the first time someone told you about how stereo headphones have a soundstage the first time you listened, it probably took you a while to perceive and realize what they were talking about, but it exists just as much as dsp suround sound through stero headphones.

When it comes to audio positioning, everybody's ears are the same. Everything you just is meaningless with respect to audio positioning when using stereo headphones. Stereo headphones CANNOT produce the effect of something being in front or in the rear. It's not an issue of opinion. It doesn't matter who you are, if you close your eyes and I talk to you, you can tell where I am. Stereo headphones CANNOT produce this effect. All they can produce is left and right and distance from left or right. I guess you're drinking the kool-aid, as well.

 

[tenzip]

So being a non-gamer, I have to wonder. A lot of people out there are playing games using a stereo speaker setup, or stereo headphones. Not everyone has a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, speakers or headphones, right?

Do the game makers perhaps add in a "different" sound for things that are behind you, as compared to in front of you? Perhaps this is why so many people say they can distinguish front from back? It wouldn't have to be a big difference, just a slight difference, so you could pick it up using a decent set of speakers or headphones.

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraychik /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm listening to my DT770s right now, actually. You are a perfect example of the type of person I am warning speculative buyers about. If you think that two speakers (stereo headphones) can somehow blend sounds together to create the illusion of audio positioning, you simply do not understand the anatomy of the ear and how our brains interpret audio signals in terms of position. And yes, I've listened to the haircut audio illusion with my headphones, and the only effect you can hear is left and right and distance (based on intensity of volume) with respect to left and right. You CANNOT discern between front and back with stereo headphones: period. EDIT: Way to fail on understanding how our brains intepret audio information from our ears.

I don't know why you can't discern the between front, back, and its depth, but I clearly can.

 

[kraychik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingStyles /img/forum/go_quote.gif You only have two ears right? But they are able to perceive the surround sound of a 5.1 speaker setup right? Your ears are able to perceive the surround sound by the different volumes and different timings of the signals getting to your ears. If a computer is able to recreate the different timing and volume and output it through your stereo headphones, your brain wont know the difference between two channels and 5.1. All the sound from 5 speakers are 2 headphone drivers all have to hit and go down the same two ears, two canals, and be translated by the same two eardrums, and perceived by the same brain. The only flaw is the equation that is used to determine the dsp might not be best suited for the way it is going to channel into you ears. In which case you may not perceive the surround sound correctly. For others like me, it works beautifully.

I understand what you're saying, but audition is more complicated than that. The direction from where sound originates and where it hits your outer ear plays an important role in the perception of sound. Those effects cannot be replicated by stereo headphones, for obvious reasons. If I were to cut off your outer ears, your ability to perceive the origin of sounds would be seriously impacted (negatively).

 

[kraychik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by moonboy403 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why you can't discern the between front, back, and its depth, but I clearly can.

The only way you can perceive that is by turning around and hearing at some point in the turn that the sound is coming from the left or the right. For example, if a sound in a game is in front of me, I will not be able to discern that with stereo headphones. If I turn 90 degrees to the right, though, the sound will then be coming from the left, giving me and idea of the placement of the sound. If I continue turning another 90 degrees to the right, the sound will be behind me and I will again be unable to discern its location.

 

[kraychik]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif So being a non-gamer, I have to wonder. A lot of people out there are playing games using a stereo speaker setup, or stereo headphones. Not everyone has a 5.1 or 7.1 setup, speakers or headphones, right? Do the game makers perhaps add in a "different" sound for things that are behind you, as compared to in front of you? Perhaps this is why so many people say they can distinguish front from back? It wouldn't have to be a big difference, just a slight difference, so you could pick it up using a decent set of speakers or headphones.

Read my post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^

Because gamers are generally always moving around and turning, they can perceive the origin of a sound by detecting at what point in their rotation the sound only comes from the left or the right, and the volume of the sound indicates the proximity of the source of the sound.

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraychik /img/forum/go_quote.gif The only way you can perceive that is by turning around and hearing at some point in the turn that the sound is coming from the left or the right. For example, if a sound in a game is in front of me, I will not be able to discern that with stereo headphones. If I turn 90 degrees to the right, though, the sound will then be coming from the left, giving me and idea of the placement of the sound. If I continue turning another 90 degrees to the right, the sound will be behind me and I will again be unable to discern its location.

I haven't been playing games for a while so I wouldn't know what you're talking about, but in Virtual Barbershop, I can clear discern the difference.

Moreover, if you've ever tried the Smyth SVS Realiser, then you would know that a stereo headphone is capable of delivering surround sound much better than any 5.1 headphones ever can. In fact, with the Realiser pairing with the SR202 that comes with it, I couldn't discern whether I was listening to the headphone or actual speakers. It literally was that amazing. So there you have your answer.

 

[roosta]

tenzip you have it spot on.

in games when someone is walking behind you their footsteps sound muffled. infront they sound clear. the game sounds recreate what cannot be produced by your home acoustics; echos, muffled sounds, gunfire heard from behind walls etc. the game recreates all the sounds you need.
front and back sounds are created through the use of effects in the game and on the computer. try it. go into an online game with a mate and have him run behind you at various distances, then do the same with him infront. you will hear the muffled footsteps im describing, unless your playing some ancient game that was coded in 8bit mono...

and if you cant hear where the guy is in virtual barber shop you need to get your ears looked at.

 

[moonboy403]

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Originally Posted by roosta /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...and if you cant hear where the guy is in virtual barber shop you need to get your ears looked at.

No need to get hostile now.

 

[tenzip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraychik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Read my post above ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Because gamers are generally always moving around and turning, they can perceive the origin of a sound by detecting at what point in their rotation the sound only comes from the left or the right, and the volume of the sound indicates the proximity of the source of the sound.

Moving around and turning won't do you any good at all if you're wearing stereo headphones or using 2 speakers, that's my point, unless you're using one of the Smyth systems.

roosta confirms that the sound in front is different than behind, at least in some cases. It seems like it would only make sense to do it that way, to let people using 2ch sound have a cue as to whether the sound is coming from in front or behind.

 

[moonboy403]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif Moving around and turning won't do you any good at all if you're wearing stereo headphones or using 2 speakers, that's my point, unless you're using one of the Smyth systems. roosta confirms that the sound in front is different than behind, at least in some cases. It seems like it would only make sense to do it that way, to let people using 2ch sound have a cue as to whether the sound is coming from in front or behind.

When OP said moving around, he didn't mean it literally, he meant moving around in the game as in the character moving around.

But really, this topic should be already moving toward closure as we know SVS Realiser/stereo headphone can produce surround sound much more convincingly than any said 5.1 headphone.

 

[KingStyles]

I find it funny that only one guy says it cant be done, and he has the least experiance with dsp and headphones.
Quote:

But really, this topic should be already moving toward closure as we know SVS Realiser/stereo headphone can produce surround sound much more convincingly than any said 5.1 headphone.

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