[MrSlim]

Hopeful/Hopeless,
You are not winning any friends here by attempting to second guess the design choices made by two of the most prominent designers(AMB) and implementers(MISTERX) in the Headfi world.

Condesending statements like :

"I see that this forum's sectarian (or lobbystic) attitudes haven't changed the slightest bit."

are not going to help your cause either.

Unless you can prove you have a design background equivalent to AMB, then its better to follow the addage:

"Better to be thought a fool, than to open one's mouth and confirm it.."

Give it a rest.

 

[ruZZ.il]

Then don't build one.

How backed is your opinion?
Have you ever/even heard a gamma1 DAC for instance? Even when powered off USB, gives some big boys a run for their money.

Please introduce yourself. I'm intrigued by your background. What have you studied, what have you built, what equipment do you own?

 

[nattonrice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mildclass /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem is that this little DAC will be more expensive than the big boys...

I'm usually in agreement that highend diy "can" cost more than the comercial quivilent, depending how extravigent you go with boutique parts. That is the prerogative of the diy'er.

But, for 2 seconds if you'd stop talking out'ya tooter, you'd see that the gamma2 is slightly cheaper or (possibly) almost the same price as the closest "big boy", the pico dac, and yet manages to use a significantly higher performing Wolfson DAC chip to the pico. This is not to mention the fact that the Pico only has usb input whereas the Gamma2 has usb, coax and optical.
The Gamma2 also has the possibility to be powered by an ac wall wart.

I'm not overtly trying to be adversarial but you're spreading erroneous information.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mildclass /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure I don't build one.

Then what in the hell are you doing here even bothering to comment?

 

[Lifthanger]

I'd like to see a link to something better for less than about 150$ (maybe even less, I didn't do the math). And I'm serious, because if there is, I'll probably build it in the future.

IIRC the gamma project is only a prelude for a desktop DAC by the design team. Aim was to get in touch with designing DACs in the first place.

If it'd make you happy, I could try the ballsie as output stage (+-15V) when the gamma2 is running. Don't think this will change much if output goes into an amp.
These low voltage opamps should be able to drive a (in my case 40cm) interconnect into the amp.

on a side note: on most forums I'm on banned members with new accounts get instabanned. I think the courtesy of the mods here should be respected.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mildclass /img/forum/go_quote.gif The problem is that this little DAC will be more expensive than the big boys... much more so (if they're chosen well) maybe.

Name them. If I can get something better than the y2 for the price, then I will buy it.

 

[MASantos]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mildclass /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'll say this only - how many big boys (connected to decent transports) have you personally heard? The problem is that this little DAC will be more expensive than the big boys... much more so (if they're chosen well) maybe. Sure I don't build one. I'm not even interested in going on arguing. Let people be different...

Then please leave this thread. If you wish to participate do it in a polite and educated way, stating your background and DIY experience and plausible reasons to back your opinions.

And you keep getting banned for your atitude and behaviour, so either change it or leave head-fi for good!

people, lets just ignore him and get back to discussing the project.

 

[ShinyFalcon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lifthanger /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'd like to see a link to something better for less than about 150$ (maybe even less, I didn't do the math). And I'm serious, because if there is, I'll probably build it in the future. IIRC the gamma project is only a prelude for a desktop DAC by the design team. Aim was to get in touch with designing DACs in the first place. If it'd make you happy, I could try the ballsie as output stage (+-15V) when the gamma2 is running. Don't think this will change much if output goes into an amp. These low voltage opamps should be able to drive a (in my case 40cm) interconnect into the amp. on a side note: on most forums I'm on banned members with new accounts get instabanned. I think the courtesy of the mods here should be respected.

A full build y1 parts cost:

- Mouser ($45 + $11.71 shipping/tax)
- AMB's lab ($40, minus panels which is additional +$40)

A full y2 [using prototype BOM]:
- Digikey ($36 + $10 shipping/tax)
- Mouser [for WM8741, crystal, etc] (+$17)
- Allow +$20 for case, ferrite, little bits I may have forgotten
- Allow for tools, which is usually the bulk of the costs (my iron and tools alone were $150)

Not bad for $160. What "very high performance" desktop DACs are in the $200 range? My Opus (without Ballsie for balanced->single ended conversion) ended up being $275 (built myself, has Metronome, 4:1 SPDIF Mux, Toslink), but is more flexible in terms of upgradeability and options (XLR, hardware control). Otherwise, the Opus and y2 is very similar to each other with the exception being the output stage and their intended audiences/purpose. Had I known about the y2 a bit earlier, I would definitely have gone with the y2.

 

[MASantos]

Even if you consider the panels or a different kind of casing, or international shipping costs, the price is still amazing for what you get!!


Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyFalcon /img/forum/go_quote.gif A full build y1 parts cost: - Mouser ($45 + $11.71 shipping/tax) - AMB's lab ($40, minus panels which is additional +$40) A full y2 [using prototype BOM]: - Digikey ($36 + $10 shipping/tax) - Mouser [for WM8741, crystal, etc] (+$17) - Allow +$20 for case, ferrite, little bits I may have forgotten - Allow for tools, which is usually the bulk of the costs (my iron and tools alone were $150) Not bad for $160. What "very high performance" desktop DACs are in the $200 range? My Opus (without Ballsie for balanced->single ended conversion) ended up being $275 (built myself, has Metronome, 4:1 SPDIF Mux, Toslink), but is more flexible in terms of upgradeability and options (XLR, hardware control). Otherwise, the Opus and y2 is very similar to each other with the exception being the output stage and their intended audiences/purpose. Had I known about the y2 a bit earlier, I would definitely have gone with the y2.

 

[Mr.Duck]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyFalcon /img/forum/go_quote.gif Had I known about the y2 a bit earlier, I would definitely have gone with the y2.

Same with me pretty much. Twisted pear stuff looks good, but when it costs $75 for a USB reciever mounted on a PCB then I'm thinking meh. By them you add up all the bits you need like the ASRC then it starts getting very expensive. Espcially if you go with buffalo then it takes no effort to blow $500+ on all these bits.

Gamma2 looks like it will be the smallest, neatest, and most affordable way to get a true high end DAC. I'm glad I waited for it. IMO it's been tough and a long time to wait. So many times I was looking on ebay etc for some cheap DAC kit from hong kong, but I'm glad I didn't buy any of them now.

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShinyFalcon /img/forum/go_quote.gif A full build y1 parts cost: - Mouser ($45 + $11.71 shipping/tax) - AMB's lab ($40, minus panels which is additional +$40) A full y2 [using prototype BOM]: - Digikey ($36 + $10 shipping/tax) - Mouser [for WM8741, crystal, etc] (+$17) - Allow +$20 for case, ferrite, little bits I may have forgotten - Allow for tools, which is usually the bulk of the costs (my iron and tools alone were $150)

Also if you want to keep the performance but trim the price even more you can leave off a number of parts in the y1 build like the DAC chip, 3.5mm phono jack, etc. Also if you just need USB DAC then you can trim off many other parts too like the switch, input jacks, power jack and support chips for it. You could probably get a USB lite Y2 build under $100.

 

[Billyk]

I am getting ready to start my y1 and I am not going to split the board and am getting the larger case and am saving for the y2 parts. My timing is good for a change.

I am looking forward to comparing it to my CAL Alpha DAC with it's 12ax7 output stage.

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billyk /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am getting ready to start my y1 and I am not going to split the board and am getting the larger case and am saving for the y2 parts. My timing is good for a change. I am looking forward to comparing it to my CAL Alpha DAC with it's 12ax7 output stage.

I would recommend you get the case that is spec'd for the y2 for your y1. It should hold the unsplit y1 just fine and you will be able to reuse it when you upgrade to the y2.

 

[Beefy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.Duck /img/forum/go_quote.gif Same with me pretty much. Twisted pear stuff looks good, but when it costs $75 for a USB reciever mounted on a PCB then I'm thinking meh.

Like all commercial products, you have to pay for labour. If you are too scared or hamfisted to do SMD, that $75 is a LOT better prospect than spending the same on a non-functioning y1.

Me, I'm currently torn between building a y1 for USB to SPDIF duties, and buying the TPA USB module. Not because I can't build the y1, but because the y1 doesn't stack with other TPA modules that I have, which case layout a lot more difficult

*

FWIW, when the y2 is released, I will seriously consider building one to replace/upgrade my existing y1 full build that I use at work. *hint to AMB* A pre-machined panel group buy would certainly help......

 

[Billyk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by m1abrams /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would recommend you get the case that is spec'd for the y2 for your y1. It should hold the unsplit y1 just fine and you will be able to reuse it when you upgrade to the y2.

Exactly!

I haven't placed my Mouser order yet and the LP2985A-33DBVR LDO regulator is back ordered so my timing isn't that great. Are there any substitutes?

 

[m1abrams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billyk /img/forum/go_quote.gif Exactly! I haven't placed my Mouser order yet and the LP2985A-33DBVR LDO regulator is back ordered so my timing isn't that great. Are there any substitutes?

Yep I ran into the same problem and the Toslink receiver is only available at Farnell. Tip - the case and the regulator are also at Farnell, so if you add a couple other items you can meet the $20 min. order at Farnell.