[markheadphonium]

I may have an opportunity to borrow a Furman Elite-15 PF power conditioner to use with my Grace m903 and Audeze LCD-2. Just wondering if anyone has an opinion on how this compares to other conditioners in its price range ($699 from Music Direct). Looking to purchase something in about that range. I'll update this thread with my impressions of the Furman.
 
Mark

 

[brat]

I use Furman Elite 16 PFEi (240V) for many years.
Before trying it I haven't any intentions to buy such a thing. After the first few minutes of use I realized it's a mandatory component for my system and since then I've never parted with it. This filter gives GREAT improvement of focus, clarity and control. Any power cable, no matter the price range, is even close to it's performace. And I've tried many cables, believe me

 

[markheadphonium]

Yeah, I've got it now, and I'm getting much more silence/blackness between the notes, more purity, lower noise floor, great stuff. But it also makes a difference to be using my WyWires power cord (Blue Juice II).. the combination is the best. The Furman plus a stock power cord is significantly less good.

 

[brat]

Yes, it keeps the FR of the power cords but adds precision and focus more than any power cord alone. I still use different power cords between the furman and the components to tune the sound.

 

[markheadphonium]

  Yes, it keeps the FR of the power cords but adds precision and focus more than any power cord alone. I still use different power cords between the furman and the components to tune the sound.

That's interesting, you notice power cords tune the FR? I think the primary thing I'm getting from power cords is improved transient snap, bass slam, that kind of thing. Do you have a match of power cords to specific tonal balance? I.e. is a certain brand "bright," another "dark"?
 
Mark

 

[brat]

  That's interesting, you notice power cords tune the FR? I think the primary thing I'm getting from power cords is improved transient snap, bass slam, that kind of thing. Do you have a match of power cords to specific tonal balance? I.e. is a certain brand "bright," another "dark"?
 
Mark

Talking about brands is too general. I have certain power cords that give more extended treble and others that emphasize the lower frequencies.
Better bass slam could be a result of a hump in the bass region.
The effects of the power devices (filtres, power cords, audiophile sockets, etc.) depend on the quality of the current where you live. I live in a building with many apartments and any power tweaks are very audible. But some friends of mine, living in one family houses, or in small vilages, do not hear big improvement from such things.

 

[markheadphonium]

I don't think better bass slam is about a bass hump -- that would be a coloration. This is a sense of more natural, truer-to-life bass. In fact I find that the WyWires power cords I'm using mainly right now have a sense of neutrality... greater extension, yes, but balanced top-to-bottom so it doesn't affect the tonal balance. The transient snap is what's really impressive. And this is their bottom model, too.
Mark
 
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to mention that I live in a house with a lot of roommates and computers and air conditioners, and a woodshop in back. I.e. many sources of contamination. I noticed great improvement when I moved my stereo to a different house circuit (I blessed to have outlets for two different circuits in my bedroom--one of them was much better). 
 
Mark

 

[yage]

I used to own a Furman PL-8 Series II power conditioner before they started making equipment for the consumer market. It was very reliable - I came home after a trip and found the extreme overvoltage LED lit and the power conditioner had shut itself off. After resetting the main power switch and turning all my equipment back on, I put in some music and everything sounded as it should. Easily the best money I had ever spent.
 
Now I use a Bryston BIT 15. It's basically equivalent to the Torus Power RM 15 with the same series mode surge suppression and isolation transformer. I've found this to provide much more noticeable improvement vs. the Furman. Vocals (in particular sibilants) and cymbals have lost a degree of 'roughness' when I compared the Bryston vs. Furman vs. straight out of the wall socket, though this was with a different amp than I have now.

 

[markheadphonium]

  I used to own a Furman PL-8 Series II power conditioner before they started making equipment for the consumer market. It was very reliable - I came home after a trip and found the extreme overvoltage LED lit and the power conditioner had shut itself off. After resetting the main power switch and turning all my equipment back on, I put in some music and everything sounded as it should. Easily the best money I had ever spent.
 
Now I use a Bryston BIT 15. It's basically equivalent to the Torus Power RM 15 with the same series mode surge suppression and isolation transformer. I've found this to provide much more noticeable improvement vs. the Furman. Vocals (in particular sibilants) and cymbals have lost a degree of 'roughness' when I compared the Bryston vs. Furman vs. straight out of the wall socket, though this was with a different amp than I have now.

I'll have to look into the Bryston. In general, that kind of improvement, like treble smoothness, is what I get from power conditioning. Besides using the Furman on my main circuit, I'm looking into plugging parallel filters into the other house circuits, like the Shunyata Venom Defender:
 
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-116784-shunyata-venom-defender.aspx
 
Mark

 

[yage]

Originally Posted by markheadphonium /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Besides using the Furman on my main circuit, I'm looking into plugging parallel filters into the other house circuits, like the Shunyata Venom Defender:
 
http://www.musicdirect.com/p-116784-shunyata-venom-defender.aspx

 
Mark,
 
Personally, I'd take a pass on stuff like the Shunyata Venom Defender. I just don't see how it could possibly make a difference (from a technical point of view), though I've never tried them myself nor the similar sounding PS Audio Noise Harvester.

 

[brat]

   
Mark,
 
Personally, I'd take a pass on stuff like the Shunyata Venom Defender. I just don't see how it could possibly make a difference (from a technical point of view), though I've never tried them myself nor the similar sounding PS Audio Noise Harvester.

The technical point of view is completely off-topic when talking about power management Someone to explain me the different sound of different power cords from a technical point of view

 

[yage]

  The technical point of view is completely off-topic when talking about power management Someone to explain me the different sound of different power cords from a technical point of view

 
I'd tend to agree with you, though I imagine that if using different power cords changed the sound, there should be some sort of measurable difference somewhere within the system. Whether we currently have the right set of measurements to sufficiently expose those differences is a discussion probably best left to the other subforum.
 
In any case, I don't doubt that you might hear differences, though I personally only have encountered one instance where switching out the power cord made an appreciable (that is, immediately noticeable) improvement. This was a Jon Risch DIY design using Belden 83802 on an Arcam CD33 - a CD player with a tendency towards politeness now had much better bass, both quantity and definition.

 

[markheadphonium]

   
Mark,
 
Personally, I'd take a pass on stuff like the Shunyata Venom Defender. I just don't see how it could possibly make a difference (from a technical point of view), though I've never tried them myself nor the similar sounding PS Audio Noise Harvester.

What's your reasoning? It seems to me that they probably have parallel capacitance (hence why they refer to themselves as parallel filters) which from an enginnering point of view (no voodoo required) is going to suppress high-frequency noise.
 
Mark

 

[yage]

Well, I think about it this way. Where is the filtered output going? It doesn't seem that the filtered output is connected to your amp / source / etc. Also, how would surge suppression work? If the protection circuitry somehow fails, your components are still connected to AC, but are now unprotected. Unless you religiously check the indicator light, your equipment is now at risk.

 

[markheadphonium]

Surge suppression and power conditioning are two different things.
 
The parallel capacitance reduces noise on the line, so there is less noise entering your equipment. Not all filters have an "output." Are you aware that capacitors have low impedance at high frequencies? They act like short-circuits at radio frequencies, meaning that the power circuit become very hard to drive at radio frequencies, so the things that are trying to drive it at RF can induce only a smaller voltage. Smaller voltage means less entering your equipment.