From IEMs to quality "portable" headphones
Feb 11, 2010 at 2:59 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 28

MayaTlab

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Hello,

I've been using during the last years a number of various IEMs but, due to anatomical reasons (occlusion issues) I'd like to try my luck in quality portable cans. The problem is : I have strictly no knowledge of full-size cans.

However, I guess I can rather accurately describe what I'm looking for given my experience of top-end IEMs. I've listened so far to ER4P, SE420, Custom 3, UM3x, and I currently own Westone 3, IE8 and Earsonics SM2.

Here's what I like and dislike about the ones I know best amongst them :

IE8 : Great soundstage, nice bass quality (beautiful rumble, tight and controlled), good extension (bass and trebles). But voices tend to be on the cold and distant side, mediums a little lost and bodiless, too much bass (though not bloated), and a slightly unrefined "edge" : they don't sound rich enough to me.
W3 : Nice treble sparkle, very rich, refined and articulate sound (at least with modded triflanges), sense of clarity, very fast (instrument "attack", such as with guitar, is precise and tensed). But : mid bass hump, too much bass, and very fatiguing trebles, awful sibilance (to my ears), mediums a little lost.
SM2 : Beautiful "colour", everything feels liquid, wonderful sense of homogeneity between the lowest bass and the highest trebles (It's a dual driver pair of headphones that feels very "coherent"), the frequency response feels rather neutral (less bass and treble than IE8 and W3, but more than typical Shures). Great highs, perhaps a little rolled off relative to the current trend towards high or top heavy headphones, but which nonetheless manage to sparkle nicely (go figure). BUT : clear lack of speed : complex layered rock tracks tend to turn into a slight mud (less so than SE420 though), soundstage a little narrow.
UM3x : Pretty much like the SM2, except that the speed is vastly better and the instrument separation quantum leaps forwards relative to the previous three. BUT they're little dull : they lost the Earsonics colour. The soundstage is frankly narrow, though to their credit depth is very good. Still, I prefer them.

So as you might have guessed I'm looking for a set of cans at least as good as the UM3x, but with increased musicality and soundstage, WITHOUT sacrificing the instrument separation and the speed.

By portable, I mean "Audio Technica ES10" kind of portable. Now, if it can fold, the better, but I won't be demanding for the best portability on the market (sound quality comes first).

I'll play them straight out of a Cowon S9 and on a MacBook Pro with the possibility of an amp later on (not a priority). So they should be easily drivable. I'll use mp3 320 kbps and I may re-encode my library in FLAC. I listen to all kinds of music, hence the need for balanced, do it all headphones, even if the price is a little higher.

The budget is roughly between 400 and 600 dollars. If it could be less, the better, but again quality comes first and I want at the very least the quality of the UM3x and SM2 combined to justify the increase in cumbersomeness. If It's impossible, I'll find another solution
smily_headphones1.gif
. Please note that I live across the Atlantic Ocean so I'll have the opportunity to pay either in Northern America or Europe depending on the final price.

Any idea ? Thanks !
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 4:00 PM Post #3 of 28
ESW10JPN is most likely the best you can do as for getting the best balanced SQ from a portable can... it may not be the best bang for the buck or for portability, but when we are considering SQ first they are IMO the best... and it still fits in your price range. Look for the reviews on them to get better descriptions on their SQ, but it should definitely be what you are looking for.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 5:19 PM Post #5 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ESW10JPN is most likely the best you can do as for getting the best balanced SQ from a portable can... it may not be the best bang for the buck or for portability, but when we are considering SQ first they are IMO the best... and it still fits in your price range. Look for the reviews on them to get better descriptions on their SQ, but it should definitely be what you are looking for.


I was indeed thinking about those.

However, I can get the ES10 for half the price of new ESW10, and still much less than used ones, so in that case I'd bet the wisest choice would be the former, even though the ESW10 might be a little more balanced.

I saw you have Shures SE530. How would you compare the quantity of bass and treble to those, and would you say vocals are more or less forward ?

Oh, and do you prefer the vocals of your K701 (probably amped
smily_headphones1.gif
) or your ESW10 ?
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 6:04 PM Post #6 of 28
If you want portable you should stay with IEM's in terms of SQ and price/performance ratio
but you should consider true full size 'phones for home use like akg k702 with little warmer amp IMO.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 6:24 PM Post #7 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by loopfreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
If you want portable you should go with IEM's in terms of SQ and price/performance ratio
but you should consider true full size 'phones for home use like akg k702 with little warmer amp IMO.



The very first sentence in this thread states that the OP has been using IEMs but needs something else now. He is now looking for a portable full-sized. I wouldn't really consider a power hungry, open backed headphone to meet either of those criteria.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 6:37 PM Post #8 of 28
Quote:

The very first sentence in this thread states that the OP has been using IEMs but needs something else now. He is now looking for a portable full-sized. I wouldn't really consider a power hungry, open backed headphone to meet either of those criteria.


Well if you heard akg k702 you would know that it meets OP criteria in terms of SQ
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 7:16 PM Post #9 of 28
Quote:

If you want portable you should stay with IEM's in terms of SQ and price/performance ratio


So to you there's no way I'll be able to find something that betters the UM3x / SM2 within my budget so that the increase in sound quality would offset the decrease in portability ?

Quote:

but you should consider true full size 'phones for home use like akg k702 with little warmer amp IMO.


I would gladly do so if music was my one and only hobby - unfortunately it's competing with other ones
smily_headphones1.gif
.

Quote:

I wouldn't really consider a power hungry, open backed headphone to meet either of those criteria.


Well I agree with you, the AKG 702 was already out of the equation when I started this thread !

Quote:

Well if you heard akg k702 you would know that it meets OP criteria in terms of SQ


You might be right regarding SQ, but although I'm ready to try to see if carrying around a portable pair of phones is my cup of tea, I know in advance that carrying a full-size open pair of headphones with a high quality amp and a long cable won't
smily_headphones1.gif
.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 7:27 PM Post #10 of 28
Quote:

So to you there's no way I'll be able to find something that betters the UM3x / SM2 within my budget so that the increase in sound quality would offset the decrease in portability ?


Yep
Think that next step would be desktop rig if the SQ is primary.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 7:37 PM Post #11 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by MayaTlab /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I was indeed thinking about those.

However, I can get the ES10 for half the price of new ESW10, and still much less than used ones, so in that case I'd bet the wisest choice would be the former, even though the ESW10 might be a little more balanced.

I saw you have Shures SE530. How would you compare the quantity of bass and treble to those, and would you say vocals are more or less forward ?

Oh, and do you prefer the vocals of your K701 (probably amped
smily_headphones1.gif
) or your ESW10 ?



Well, I haven't read too much on the ES10 yet (and I don't think many here have heard them yet) but I'd think they won't be too far from ESW10 SQ level, for better or for worse. If you can get them for good price do give them a try.
smily_headphones1.gif


In comparison to SE530 (I'll make the comparison with default olives, rather than my custom tips), ESW10 has much more highs and tighter bass. Mids wise, they're actually somewhat identical in forwardness and body except that ESW10JPN does have slightly bit more upper mids. Personally I love their mids; it's what dethroned my SE530's of the title of what I considered to be the best sounding mids.

I prefer the vocals of ESW10JPN over the K701. IMO K701 only sounds good with certain vocals as even after proper amping (I got the WA6 and tried it with other higher end solid state amps), there is always bit of a unnatural peak in the upper midrange area. I find that ESW10JPN gets the mids just right for my tastes, but do note that I do like my vocals somewhat forward and not necessarily perfectly neutral.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 8:08 PM Post #12 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well, I haven't read too much on the ES10 yet (and I don't think many here have heard them yet) but I'd think they won't be too far from ESW10 SQ level, for better or for worse. If you can get them for good price do give them a try.
smily_headphones1.gif


In comparison to SE530 (I'll make the comparison with default olives, rather than my custom tips), ESW10 has much more highs and tighter bass. Mids wise, they're actually somewhat identical in forwardness and body except that ESW10JPN does have slightly bit more upper mids. Personally I love their mids; it's what dethroned my SE530's of the title of what I considered to be the best sounding mids.

I prefer the vocals of ESW10JPN over the K701. IMO K701 only sounds good with certain vocals as even after proper amping (I got the WA6 and tried it with other higher end solid state amps), there is always bit of a unnatural peak in the upper midrange area. I find that ESW10JPN gets the mids just right for my tastes, but do note that I do like my vocals somewhat forward and not necessarily perfectly neutral.



Thanks for this very informative answer. Excuse me to bother you a little bit more, but how would you compare the instrument separation between SE530 and ESW10 ? If it is better, is it a clear improvement or just a "nice" additional touch ?

Also, regarding the highs, have you had the chance to try IE8 or Westone 3 ? If that's the case, would you say the ESW10 have more or less trebles ? I'm just trying to situate their treble response within my headphone knowledge, since I'd like to avoid the rolled off highs of the SE530 and the fatiguing ones of the IE8 and W3 - the average is roughly in the UM3x territory. Additionally, since some reviews mentions that the ES10 is a bit brighter than ESW10, it could be too much to my tastes if I go for the former (although frankly the price difference is so wide that I'm even tempted to not even consider the ESW10).

Thanks.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 8:23 PM Post #13 of 28
I feel that instrument separation and positioning (especially the latter) is better on ESW10JPN than SE530. To me its a clear improvement in that aspect when comparing to SE530 with stock olives, but they do get closer with either custom tips or triple flanges.

I did try the W3 but it was only for an hour or two, and it was a while ago. I'd say PM Headphoneaddict for that comparison, as he's heard both of those headphones over a longer period and enjoy both.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 8:28 PM Post #14 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by loopfreak /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well if you heard akg k702 you would know that it meets OP criteria in terms of SQ


I have a pair(K701) in the mail so I will defer judgment until they arrive, but the suggestion you gave is pretty much the opposite of what the OP asked for. That you continue to suggest that the OP get a desktop rig when they are CLEARLY looking for a portable solution is dumbfounding.
 
Feb 11, 2010 at 8:57 PM Post #15 of 28
Quote:

Originally Posted by K_19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I feel that instrument separation and positioning (especially the latter) is better on ESW10JPN than SE530. To me its a clear improvement in that aspect when comparing to SE530 with stock olives, but they do get closer with either custom tips or triple flanges.

I did try the W3 but it was only for an hour or two, and it was a while ago. I'd say PM Headphoneaddict for that comparison, as he's heard both of those headphones over a longer period and enjoy both.



Thanks a lot for your help.
 

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