[Pricklely Peete]

I bet dollars to donuts Ed you have a cracked or lifted trace somewhere...it may be one or number of them. Take you time going over every single spot you worked on with using magnifying reading glasses or something else that will give you a close up view of things.

You may have been lucky with the first power up and the following spark show and not damaged anything.

First things first check all connections and solder points you worked on with a digital multi meter (check for continuity and shorts). Then check for cold solder joints and any possible cracked or lifted traces. Then check to make sure all the components were properly oriented (polarity for electrolytic caps swapped and anode/cathode stripe for diodes). Once you have all that checked and verified then assemble for testing under power, not before. Pics would be very helpful indeed. Both sides of the pcb please and as close up and detailed as possible.

I'm sure you've missed something somewhere...hopefully it'll be a small issue easily fixed.

Peete.

 

[edguetzow]

Thanks, Peete!

This evening I have been going over the solder joints from the bottom of the board. I am using a Radio Shack analog multimeter to check continuity. I have it set beep whenever continuity id ok. I also replaced the Panasonic 47uf (25 v) that I had installed at the top left middle of the board. I replaced it with the original 47uf component that was on the board. The Panny didn't seem right as it gave a very low reading for continuity.

Question: when I check the continuity of the 4700uf Nichicons, the meter beeps for a second or two then fades off. I switch polarity with the meter and it repeats this same way. It never sustains a steady perpetual beep. Is this how this should be for these components?

Same for the 47uf Panasonic.

Just about everything else (diodes/PIOs) give a steady beep.

I tried to power up earlier and it was the same - no change.

I am taking the board back out to inspect for cracks, lifted traces, etc.

I have taken photos but need to figure out how to upload them. Here is a try:



I think this where the problem might be as it is where I cratered the board and possible a trace. Hard to tell though.

Thanks for you support!

 

[les_garten]

This is getting good!

Ehhh, except for you though...

.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Ed,

There are a lot of exposed leads on the bypass caps that could be a possible problem when you install the board into the chassis. Does it sit freely on the chassis stand offs when you insert the pcb or does it need to be forced down ?

If you have force it down the positioning of the bypass caps is in need of adjustment. With the exposed leads near possible short circuits once the board is installed you can see why positioning and insulation of the entire lead is important.

The other major issue from the pics is some of the soldering pads look completely uh....burnt for lack of a better term. If anything looking for one single issue is problematic when you have multiple possible causes for concern.

That being said it's likely you'll need to redo the bypass cap leads with full insulation coverage and arrange them like the photos in the instructions (which means duplicating the insulation/shrink wrap coverage of the leads).

The one 47uf cap needs to be cleaned up considerably and it's connections traced and checked for continuity.

The work needs to be as good or better than the original board. In other words it has to look like no one has touched it if you were to look at it closely. What I mean by that is the quality level of the soldering and bypass work has to be up to snuff. The possibility of burned,lifted and destroyed pads is a real issue with any board, not just this one.

A rookie mistake with soldering is using the iron improperly, as in, if I push harder it will heat up faster...nope, all that does is ensure the pad will lift or the trace will crack after one or two attempts. Use a very light touch and let the iron's heat do the work. It's the key to keeping pads in place and the tracks covered that the board was ever worked on other than new solder being used (left behind). Practice with a junk board uninstalling various parts and keep at it until you are able to take something out and solder it back in without it looking like it was removed and replaced to begin with. Then you are skilled enough to tackle a real board.

I'm not singling you out Ed, this advice I have given out right from the very start of this project. The actual mod is a beginner project but the skills required to remove parts and solder in the news ones takes a level of skill that if it is not polished beforehand leads to problems when it comes time to power up the unit being worked on. I always take my time with any difficult parts and if I need more tools or don't have what I need (flux or braid etc) then I stop what I'm doing and go get it. Another rookie mistake is haste, it leads to cut corners and mistakes. Remember, it only takes one mistake to ruin the project (sometimes irreversible damage) so take your time and test the work with a meter (shorts and continuity). If it looks bad, it likely is bad is my motto. Redo the section or the joint (etc...keeping in mind to cause as little damage as possible to the pcb and the part in question).


Anyway this mod although very easy to understand and implement requires one to have skill with the iron in order not to damage a pcb that isn't the best quality to begin with (nothing new in the 1K and under bracket).

Hopefully with some reworking of your board the issues will be solved and the unit power up as it should.

I'm pulling for you Ed, you can do it (Tony Little style

).

Peete.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pricklely Peete /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ed, <<SNIP>> I'm pulling for you Ed, you can do it (Tony Little style ). Peete.

The Tony Little thing really gets my blood pumping!

I'm playing "Eye of the Tiger" as I'm writing this!

Got my New Gadget coming in Next Week to start this deal, I don't need much of an excuse to buy a new tool!

.

 

[edguetzow]

I have worked on it as suggested and am basically taking my time to disassemble and reassemble once I know traces, no shorts, etc. are visible.

I won't have more time until early next week but I have found a couple of traces that were broken very close to the pad or hole and not really a lot lifted - just enough to break the continuity.

The cratered area I noted did have an obliterated pad/trace - again part of the trace enough to break the circuit.

Thanks again for the help!

 

[Coreyk78]

I have a piece of advice that I would give to anyone who is going to attempt this upgrade. I bricked my original board because of some lifted or broken traces or something that I never could track down. I ordered a replacement board from China and did the mod all over again, but the second time I was very slow and meticulous. What I did was just to replace a couple components at a time, then I would hook up the board to make sure it was still working, then once I knew it was fine I would replace a few more components and rinse and repeat. That way if you mess something up you'll know exactly where to look since you've only changed a couple of components, rather than a couple dozen

. My second board has been working perfectly for months now and I love it.

On a side note I finally broke down and ordered an OPA-Earth and OPA-Sun v.2 from Audio-GD this week. It will be interesting to see if I like them more than my OPA627BPs that I've been using for quite a while. One of them will find a home in my zero and the other will be tested in my VSPS phono stage.

My VSPS has +/- 12v rails for the opamp with 47uf caps directly soldered to the socket pins so I know that will handle the Sun, anyone know off hand what the Zero's voltages are at the opamp? I could open it up and check it, but I'm feeling lazy hehe

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coreyk78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have a piece of advice that I would give to anyone who is going to attempt this upgrade. I bricked my original board because of some lifted or broken traces or something that I never could track down. I ordered a replacement board from China and did the mod all over again, but the second time I was very slow and meticulous. What I did was just to replace a couple components at a time, then I would hook up the board to make sure it was still working, then once I knew it was fine I would replace a few more components and rinse and repeat. That way if you mess something up you'll know exactly where to look since you've only changed a couple of components, rather than a couple dozen . My second board has been working perfectly for months now and I love it. On a side note I finally broke down and ordered an OPA-Earth and OPA-Sun v.2 from Audio-GD this week. It will be interesting to see if I like them more than my OPA627BPs that I've been using for quite a while. One of them will find a home in my zero and the other will be tested in my VSPS phono stage. My VSPS has +/- 12v rails for the opamp with 47uf caps directly soldered to the socket pins so I know that will handle the Sun, anyone know off hand what the Zero's voltages are at the opamp? I could open it up and check it, but I'm feeling lazy hehe

Bet Peete knows this off the top of his head. Putting one in your Phono stage, how about that one! Kewl!

.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

V at the + and - pins of the DAC opa socket are +15V and -15V DC.

You are right Corey......that is exactly how I did it but I did not test each time just took the meter and checked with that. I did have one pad lift for me but other than that I had no issues that I would call really maddening. I have terrific patience though. It did take me the better part of 2 whole months to complete the original mod. I did do it in stages, to test it out to see what changes each step brought to the table that way I'd know what the cumulative mods would do for the overall result. Each step brought refinement with the first Phase being the most important followed closely by the second. Phase 3 does add quite a bit to the H/Amp section. Of course the Alps pot addition is the final touch to a fully Frankie'd Zero (including HDAM)

The addition of the HDAM is critical to the mod...your not going to believe the differences over the 627's....the HDAM is simply in another league and works exceedingly well with the Frankie.

It does take quite sometime to settle though...be prepared to spend at least 300 hours burning that HDAM in (if you decide to use the large green PIO on it it'll take even longer). No need to as Rifa caps the OPA's now come with are just as good I feel.

Ed:

Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh, I didn't mean to at all. I hope you get your Frankie up and running soon. It seems you may have caught all the issues already. I hope so and can hardly wait for your next post to update things (in a positive manner I hope).

Peete.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

The 12 V +- rails on the VSPS are fine for running either OPA. My DIY DAC project runs an Earth and Moon module at those Voltages just fine (for 7 months now without a single hiccup).

Peete.

 

[Coreyk78]

I got my HDAMs today, I'm burning in the Earth right now in my Zero. First impressions are that the soundstage is much bigger than the 627's. Its the first time I've heard depth and serperation in music like this, I can hear that backup singers are actually farther away from me, really neat.

 

[les_garten]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coreyk78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I got my HDAMs today, I'm burning in the Earth right now in my Zero. First impressions are that the soundstage is much bigger than the 627's. Its the first time I've heard depth and serperation in music like this, I can hear that backup singers are actually farther away from me, really neat.

Thats how it starts...

Your soul is lost...

.

 

[Syu]

Can I replace 4 silmic caps to jumper lines? According to the datasheet of AD1852, there are no considerable DC offset from AD1852's analog output...

 

[goldfinger1111]

Heya,

I lost track how many hours my Frankie is on right now, but at this very moment it's sound is pretty awful.

It's like "put a blanket over everything and turn the bass all the way up".
Soundstage is so narrow, just like the whole band stuck in a phone booth.

Can't wait for the sound to change for the better.

 

[Pricklely Peete]

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldfinger1111 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Heya, I lost track how many hours my Frankie is on right now, but at this very moment it's sound is pretty awful. It's like "put a blanket over everything and turn the bass all the way up". Soundstage is so narrow, just like the whole band stuck in a phone booth. Can't wait for the sound to change for the better.

Sounds like you've hit one of the last and largest troughs......no highs sounds like your right around the 275-300 hour mark....it'll all change for the better in the next 75 hours....hang in there.

Peete.