DBB1
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Posts
- 192
- Likes
- 78
That is very high praise. MH-DA005 owners have really stumbled on to something. Can you elaborate more on your impressions?
Four years after the L.K.S DA004: the Musetec DA005 DAC
- Thread starter JecklinStax
- Start date
teknorob23
Member of the Trade: Network Acoustics
Essentially it bests the Tamabaqui in every area. As others in the thread have mentioned, to get the best out of the DAC you need a good Pre-amp, but comparing the MM and 005 using a the HPA4, has made me completely re-evaluate the benchmark, which i thought using the MM was super detailed but a little lacking in life . The depth of soundstage is dramatically improved listening to the musetec, so much detail too but it's the dynamics, speed and weight of presentation which are just something else. Apart from the need of an external amp i'm struggling to find a weakness.
Most of my listening is done and comparison with the Mola Mola were made with... Utopia > HPA4 > 005 > USB > Bricasti M5 > Filter > streaming cable > switch .. Listening to 75% electronica, like four Tet, Autechre, Jeff Mills, Max Cooper 25% anything from leonard cohen to MBV, New Order, Miles Davis, etc, etc.
But i have also evaluated on 2 channel set up shahinian obelisk 2 > AGD Gran Vivace GanTube Mono Blocks > HPA4 > Musetec > i2S AGG > 3D Lab Streamer > Ethernet Filter > Streaming Cable > switch ... listening to all type of music
I know i'm sounding like a love-crazed fanboy, but hey thats exactly how this DAC has made me feel.. bit of shock for 48 year old audiophile cynic
Hope that helps a bit but if theres anything specific, let me know and. i'll do my best to answer
DBB1
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Posts
- 192
- Likes
- 78
Thanks for the detailed response. I'm beginning to think I should try the HPA4. I'm currently using the Hegel P30 which is a good preamp. I think Benchmark allows a 30 return. Do you hav any thoughts on that?Essentially it bests the Tamabaqui in every area. As others in the thread have mentioned, to get the best out of the DAC you need a good Pre-amp, but comparing the MM and 005 using a the HPA4, has made me completely re-evaluate the benchmark, which i thought using the MM was super detailed but a little lacking in life . The depth of soundstage is dramatically improved listening to the musetec, so much detail too but it's the dynamics, speed and weight of presentation which are just something else. Apart from the need of an external amp i'm struggling to find a weakness.
Most of my listening is done and comparison with the Mola Mola were made with... Utopia > HPA4 > 005 > USB > Bricasti M5 > Filter > streaming cable > switch .. Listening to 75% electronica, like four Tet, Autechre, Jeff Mills, Max Cooper 25% anything from leonard cohen to MBV, New Order, Miles Davis, etc, etc.
But i have also evaluated on 2 channel set up shahinian obelisk 2 > AGD Gran Vivace GanTube Mono Blocks > HPA4 > Musetec > i2S AGG > 3D Lab Streamer > Ethernet Filter > Streaming Cable > switch ... listening to all type of music
I know i'm sounding like a love-crazed fanboy, but hey thats exactly how this DAC has made me feel.. bit of shock for 48 year old audiophile cynic
Hope that helps a bit but if theres anything specific, let me know and. i'll do my best to answer
teknorob23
Member of the Trade: Network Acoustics
I havent heard the Hegel, so no i cant comment, but the HPA4 is as transparent as they come, so if you want to hear what your upstream kit sounds like.. good or bad, thats what you get. With 005 its all good though and with 30 day returns, whats there to lose, other than you might want to keep it
DBB1
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Posts
- 192
- Likes
- 78
Epilogue
I mention in my original review that I would report back after listening to music from the May for a few days. This time the listening was in a normal manner without labored A/B comparisons. My original conclusions did not change.
Since, in my case, the sound of a live concert is a priority, I preferred the realistic detail of the Mustec. The May still had a more natural texture with a black background which is a huge achievement. Nevertheless, I couldn’t help feeling I was missing some of the life of the music when I was listening to the May.
I also felt that the May was manipulating the sound in a generally pleasant way, but not in a way that enhanced the illusion of live music.
I will explain. One of observations I made in my original review was that, on some tracks, the May was providing more separation between instruments and voices in chamber and small ensembles, but yet gave the illusion that the seat was further back because it captured less detail. This is the opposite of reality where moving closer to the performers increases detail and separation. Also the May seemed to create a 3-d effect to some degree, by putting black silence between the instruments and thus blotting out some detail, much as an artist would use charcoal to create depth in a drawing.
I mention in my original review that I would report back after listening to music from the May for a few days. This time the listening was in a normal manner without labored A/B comparisons. My original conclusions did not change.
Since, in my case, the sound of a live concert is a priority, I preferred the realistic detail of the Mustec. The May still had a more natural texture with a black background which is a huge achievement. Nevertheless, I couldn’t help feeling I was missing some of the life of the music when I was listening to the May.
I also felt that the May was manipulating the sound in a generally pleasant way, but not in a way that enhanced the illusion of live music.
I will explain. One of observations I made in my original review was that, on some tracks, the May was providing more separation between instruments and voices in chamber and small ensembles, but yet gave the illusion that the seat was further back because it captured less detail. This is the opposite of reality where moving closer to the performers increases detail and separation. Also the May seemed to create a 3-d effect to some degree, by putting black silence between the instruments and thus blotting out some detail, much as an artist would use charcoal to create depth in a drawing.
gracky
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2002
- Posts
- 104
- Likes
- 18
HermannS, can you read the values of resistors to the output connectors in the output stage? I think they will reflect the output impedance of 005.
bouscadie
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Oct 11, 2016
- Posts
- 126
- Likes
- 70
Hello,
are the two outputs usable at the same time? impossible to select them?
Tac
are the two outputs usable at the same time? impossible to select them?
Tac
My Musetec now has over 100 hours of break in and has a SR purple fuse. The change between 25 hours and 100 hours was dramatic. I imagine it was a combination of the fuse and break-in. My previous DAC purchases were used so going through this break in is a new experience. Will be interesting to see if further changes are ahead.
As for the sound, it more than met my expectations. At first I wondered if I had made a mistake as my Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE was much more preferable at 25 hours. I was missing the black background and natural tone of the Spring. Now at 100 hours, I am sold on the Musetec. Detail, soundstage, and tone are wonderful. There is also a palpable presence to the sound that is hard to describe.
i am feeding the DAC with an MacMini running Roon/HQP through a Sonore UltraRend. There are some network issues right blow so I am stuck using HQP upsampling to DSD64. Once tins gets straightened out, I will plan to experiment with different filters and using PCM upsampling. My guess is that the Holo NOS DACs will be much more responsive to changes in software but am not sure.
As for the sound, it more than met my expectations. At first I wondered if I had made a mistake as my Holo Audio Spring 2 KTE was much more preferable at 25 hours. I was missing the black background and natural tone of the Spring. Now at 100 hours, I am sold on the Musetec. Detail, soundstage, and tone are wonderful. There is also a palpable presence to the sound that is hard to describe.
i am feeding the DAC with an MacMini running Roon/HQP through a Sonore UltraRend. There are some network issues right blow so I am stuck using HQP upsampling to DSD64. Once tins gets straightened out, I will plan to experiment with different filters and using PCM upsampling. My guess is that the Holo NOS DACs will be much more responsive to changes in software but am not sure.
I should have added to the previous post that a big part of my listening is live Grateful Dead. This DAC is pulling out detail that I had never heard before. It lets you really feel like the band is in the room. The DAC works well for all types of music that I have played but it provides a boost to live recordings that is wonderfu.
WafflesID
Head-Fier
This thread is extremely intriguing. Holo May was top of my list for next upgrade. But the musetec is now shooting up the list.
I have 1266 tc into a formula s + powerman fed by an SMSL su-9 which is doing a very admirable job. Just a TINY bit on the bright side of my preference, which is why the May was top of my list. However the formula s and powerman are brand new, barely any break-in, so that could change.
That said, even with this setup, I absolutely can't hear the difference of the sound color modes of the su-9 (tube, crystal etc). If I can't hear the differences there, am I really going to hear the difference of other DACs? What would that jump be like? Or should I first start upgrading all my cables (USB, jitterbug fmj, power cables) before dac?
I have 1266 tc into a formula s + powerman fed by an SMSL su-9 which is doing a very admirable job. Just a TINY bit on the bright side of my preference, which is why the May was top of my list. However the formula s and powerman are brand new, barely any break-in, so that could change.
That said, even with this setup, I absolutely can't hear the difference of the sound color modes of the su-9 (tube, crystal etc). If I can't hear the differences there, am I really going to hear the difference of other DACs? What would that jump be like? Or should I first start upgrading all my cables (USB, jitterbug fmj, power cables) before dac?
sns109
100+ Head-Fier
I imagine both outputs are active, don't recall a choice of outputs. I've always used balanced out, it may be that connecting both may affect sound quality, could possibly change output impedance.
Sruffle impressions continue to provide evidence of some common sound characteristics of 005. Seems high resolution and sense of excitement/presence are two of those common characteristics everyone hears. My take is essential character of 005 comes from this ability to resolve minutiae, in order for audio equipment to be characterized as highly resolving, it must be transparent, both micro and macro dynamic. and freq. extension in both directions. So, high resolving equipment will by nature be highly involving, excitement is but one inherent characteristic of that involvement. So, accepting 005 is by nature exciting, can it also be a calming listen? Can a component be both exciting and calming at the same time, is it the music we play that changes this emotional response, or is it the nature of the component that carries over to all music.
I'm still up in the air over this characteristic of 005. certainly always highly involving, exciting, and this in itself is not a bad thing. Up to now, I've been of a mind 005 is a digital device and not ashamed of it, other dacs are trying to be analog. Ever since inserting 005 I've continued down path of extracting maximum resolution from my entire system, one of my attempts, the audiophile network switch did not go well. At this very moment, I'm going through burn in of Psvane Acme 300b vacuum tubes, which replaced Shuguang Black Treasure. The Psvane are nearly five times the cost of Shuguang and probably five times as resolving. My amp and rest of system are now digging down into what seems like a limitless ditch of resolution from 005. This added resolution created a sense of excitement that became overwhelming about four hours into listening session last night, I simply couldn't take anymore. With only ten hours on tubes, I'm not coming to any conclusions as these tubes reportedly take up to 150 hours to break in. What I heard last night was immense sound stage, positively holographic images, every single low level detail heard. With sense of living, breathing palpable presences in room you'd think limitless involvement would be order of day, this is not what I experienced. I presume this slight irritation came from tubes lack of burn in. The usual thing I hear with non burned in components is excessive attack, attenuated decay, heard as lack of bloom. In the past I've always heard this defect immediately, prior to getting really involved in music, never able to move out of analytical stage.
With this tube upgrade I've found myself totally involved in two listening sessions, the one ending in dissatisfaction, again, I'll put it down to tube break in. So, I'm always looking for fly in ointment when it comes to my audio systems. at this point I'm wondering if there is in fact a point where evolving resolving powers of my system or any system can uncover some flaw or flaws in 005? I've yet to hear a perfect audio component, and never expect to. Is the 005 exciting, involving, resolving to a fault, or is ti something in the rest of my system, I expect I'll get to the bottom of this soon. I only find this whole thing concerning because of my experience with audiophile network switch, which by most accounts should have resulted in better sound quality. Either way, its now obvious to me 005 is highly reactive to changes, I guess inevitable price of high resolution, something I've always known, now only experiencing at a higher level. As things stand, the highs are getting higher, lows getting lower, I'm now on edge of knife.
Sruffle impressions continue to provide evidence of some common sound characteristics of 005. Seems high resolution and sense of excitement/presence are two of those common characteristics everyone hears. My take is essential character of 005 comes from this ability to resolve minutiae, in order for audio equipment to be characterized as highly resolving, it must be transparent, both micro and macro dynamic. and freq. extension in both directions. So, high resolving equipment will by nature be highly involving, excitement is but one inherent characteristic of that involvement. So, accepting 005 is by nature exciting, can it also be a calming listen? Can a component be both exciting and calming at the same time, is it the music we play that changes this emotional response, or is it the nature of the component that carries over to all music.
I'm still up in the air over this characteristic of 005. certainly always highly involving, exciting, and this in itself is not a bad thing. Up to now, I've been of a mind 005 is a digital device and not ashamed of it, other dacs are trying to be analog. Ever since inserting 005 I've continued down path of extracting maximum resolution from my entire system, one of my attempts, the audiophile network switch did not go well. At this very moment, I'm going through burn in of Psvane Acme 300b vacuum tubes, which replaced Shuguang Black Treasure. The Psvane are nearly five times the cost of Shuguang and probably five times as resolving. My amp and rest of system are now digging down into what seems like a limitless ditch of resolution from 005. This added resolution created a sense of excitement that became overwhelming about four hours into listening session last night, I simply couldn't take anymore. With only ten hours on tubes, I'm not coming to any conclusions as these tubes reportedly take up to 150 hours to break in. What I heard last night was immense sound stage, positively holographic images, every single low level detail heard. With sense of living, breathing palpable presences in room you'd think limitless involvement would be order of day, this is not what I experienced. I presume this slight irritation came from tubes lack of burn in. The usual thing I hear with non burned in components is excessive attack, attenuated decay, heard as lack of bloom. In the past I've always heard this defect immediately, prior to getting really involved in music, never able to move out of analytical stage.
With this tube upgrade I've found myself totally involved in two listening sessions, the one ending in dissatisfaction, again, I'll put it down to tube break in. So, I'm always looking for fly in ointment when it comes to my audio systems. at this point I'm wondering if there is in fact a point where evolving resolving powers of my system or any system can uncover some flaw or flaws in 005? I've yet to hear a perfect audio component, and never expect to. Is the 005 exciting, involving, resolving to a fault, or is ti something in the rest of my system, I expect I'll get to the bottom of this soon. I only find this whole thing concerning because of my experience with audiophile network switch, which by most accounts should have resulted in better sound quality. Either way, its now obvious to me 005 is highly reactive to changes, I guess inevitable price of high resolution, something I've always known, now only experiencing at a higher level. As things stand, the highs are getting higher, lows getting lower, I'm now on edge of knife.
DBB1
100+ Head-Fier
- Joined
- Dec 24, 2010
- Posts
- 192
- Likes
- 78
I think you experience is similar to others here. It's nice to hear your enthusiasm. Thanks for reporting. I look forward to your impressions when it is completely broken in.
I'd say, after 100h the sound is pretty much stable. It was a rollercoaster ride for me. Dark->edgy->clean. I assume it is due to the super cap power supply. The other capacitors are not suspicious in this regard. Two days max does the job for those.
How they connected the single-ended RCA output looks a little funny to me. It is a fully balanced circuit design, which fits the XLR naturally. I think they just used one half, which corresponds to the max output voltage rating. That is similar to how XLR-RCA adapters work. In the attached picture you can see how only the right circuit is connected to the RCA socket via the rightmost resistor.
I've been asked to identify the output resistor values. The marking says 33R0, so that's 33 ohms. That's quite low - and good.
Therefore, as XLR and RCA have separate output resistors and the output stage is a powerful beast, I am sure that both outputs can be effortlessly driven simultaneously.
----
Edit: I just noticed that there is a 15-ohms resistor in series with the 33s. The total output impedance is 48 ohms. This 15-ohm resistor is effective for both the RCA and XLR. Thus, the two outputs are not fully decoupled. With this small value, I don't think it's too bad. In designs, which use op-amps, there would be a voltage follower buffer to get rid of the coupling.
How they connected the single-ended RCA output looks a little funny to me. It is a fully balanced circuit design, which fits the XLR naturally. I think they just used one half, which corresponds to the max output voltage rating. That is similar to how XLR-RCA adapters work. In the attached picture you can see how only the right circuit is connected to the RCA socket via the rightmost resistor.
I've been asked to identify the output resistor values. The marking says 33R0, so that's 33 ohms. That's quite low - and good.
Therefore, as XLR and RCA have separate output resistors and the output stage is a powerful beast, I am sure that both outputs can be effortlessly driven simultaneously.
----
Edit: I just noticed that there is a 15-ohms resistor in series with the 33s. The total output impedance is 48 ohms. This 15-ohm resistor is effective for both the RCA and XLR. Thus, the two outputs are not fully decoupled. With this small value, I don't think it's too bad. In designs, which use op-amps, there would be a voltage follower buffer to get rid of the coupling.
Last edited:
Lennym
100+ Head-Fier
For anyone who might be interested, shenzhenaudio.com is running a Black Friday sale. Musetec is under $3000 with free shipping, 30 day return policy and 2 year warranty.
Last edited:
Jon L
For him, f/1.2 is a prime number
- Joined
- May 20, 2003
- Posts
- 4,479
- Likes
- 730
Too bad Musetec is only getting a 10% discount when Gustard X26 Pro is getting a 15% discount, to the tune of $1275.
I would love to compare the $3000 Musetec DA005 to $1275 Gustard X26 Pro.
https://shenzhenaudio.com/products/...5-0-xoms-xu216-high-performance-audio-decoder
Users who are viewing this thread
