[Nepenthe]

And I'm not trying to stir anything up. And these reasons may seem odd to other owners.

I generally really like the sound of these headphones. They're really nice. But:

1) the cord is so noisy: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=145432

It's funny that Salt Peanuts mentioned the term "microphonic" because I've also noticed what I think is the cable itself picking up electrical noise, as if it's incredibly badly shielded.

2) the soundstage/wideness is excellent, best I've ever heard, and unfortunately, that's a sort of a problem for me: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144657

At times this can be disconcerting and distracting.

3) the comfort is lacking. I think a conventional padded band would have worked nicely. It always feels like I'm wearing an "implement," and lying down to listen doesn't work very well (and is noisy).

4) the source and amp needed to match the performance of these headphones are priced well beyond what I'm willing to spend. The Onix and Xenos don't cut it, in that they're virtually indistinguishable from my Sony CDP-311 source and Aiwa AXR-005 receiver output. An $1800 CD player and $900 amp would be a start.

The HD 497s are easy to just slip on. They're always comfortable and can be used lying down. They have no soundstage, which unfortunately is what I need to make the balance "normal" to me. They're not insulted by running them with an old department store CD player and a receiver. The cord is mostly noiseless and unintrusive. The sound isn't great but it's listenable and revealing enough.

But I'll be looking for something else soon. I'm also probably going to sell the Onix and Xenos though.

 

[jagorev]

Hah. Yet another person finds the HD 497 a more enjoyable headphone than something that costs 5-10 times as much.

I've often found the 497 a less "distracting" or "demanding" (and, ergo, more fun) headphone than the HD 600:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showt...ght=loving+497

 

[Naga]

Not to take this too far OT, but the 497's lack of detail in comparison to the 580 keeps it off of my desk

still a great entry senn tho

 

[raisin]

Sony seems to have cornered the market on dichotomous impressions with their high end headphones.

 

[Trogdor]

Nepenthe, I'll be the first to say it and I don't own the 5k though have had a lot of time with them privately (a friends): you are sacrificing a lot.

How long have you spent with them?

I think all you really need is better amplification, that's it. Have you tried other amps with this can at meets?

A friend has the 497s and IMO, they are far inferior compared to the 5000's - yes less distracting because they are just plain less accurate.

I haven't had problems with the chord but frankly I listen to them at my desk so I don't know about lying down with them. As far as soundstage, you need to get used to it and it takes time.

I'm serious, spend more time with them. AGain, this isn't to diss the 497s but they are IMO no where near the league as the 5000's.

 

[cotdt]

Anyone know how the SA5000 compares to the 580 and the Shure E4c on a good source? I've read in reviews that it sounds like an E4c or Eymotic ER4 but with more bass and overall better. Is this true? Is SA5000 as smooth and full-sounding as the Shure E4?

 

[Hey_Its_Cole]

I had problems with the comfort at first but once I figured out how to wear them that has gone away and I find them to be very comfortable. The trick is to rest the center of the mesh pad on the crest of the top of the head and that slight flat spot slash indention that leads to the kneck. It took me a while to perfect putting them on, but once I did I have no complaints for the comfort department.

 

[Nepenthe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trogdor Nepenthe, I'll be the first to say it and I don't own the 5k though have had a lot of time with them privately (a friends): you are sacrificing a lot. How long have you spent with them? I think all you really need is better amplification, that's it. Have you tried other amps with this can at meets? A friend has the 497s and IMO, they are far inferior compared to the 5000's - yes less distracting because they are just plain less accurate. I haven't had problems with the chord but frankly I listen to them at my desk so I don't know about lying down with them. As far as soundstage, you need to get used to it and it takes time. I'm serious, spend more time with them. AGain, this isn't to diss the 497s but they are IMO no where near the league as the 5000's.

Too late, a Head-Fier PMed me right after I started this thread and after a few PMs back and forth I sold them and collected a PayPal and will deliver them in the morning.

Don't get me wrong, I think the SA5000 sounds fine, very fine. I'm under no illusion that the 497 is a match. I'm sure it would even improve with a few thousand dollars worth of source/amp/cables (but the Onix and Xenos were IMO wastes of money and are for sale). The cord and cup noise was always a problem, and the comfort and practicality isn't what I would have liked. And the differences in my left and right hearing (which I wouldn't call a difference in amplitude or frequency response) are very real (to me) and highly exacerbated by the Sonys.

The biggest thing is this: I own a cheap ($100) KBC "Force S" helmet and a mid-priced ($400) Shoei RF1000 helmet. The Shoei is ostensibly the better helmet, but I realized one day that when I thought of going for a ride, I was reaching for the KBC first -- it's more comfortable, quieter, has better aerodynamics, some of the venting is better, it has better chin protection, and the strap retainer works much better. The Shoei IS better in several objective ways, but the KBC just works better for me and I like using it better.

Same thing with the headphones. I found myself wanting to throw the 497s on a majority of the time. Lying down? 497s (due to the size and fit problems of the Sonys). Going to be working and moving around in my cubicle or home office? 497s (due to the noise of the cups and cord of the Sonys). Going to be listening for a long time? 497s (due to the simple comfort of the 497s). Listening to music with lots of wide stereo imagery? 497s (due to my brain's problem interpreting widely panned sounds). Travelling? 497s, obviously. And on and on.

 

[Azure]

I'm considering getting the SA5k's eventually, but that 4th reason concerns me. Couldn't you say that the reason you had trouble was because you used the weak Xenos 3HA instead of something more powerful like an M^3 (Maybe with 627/637 opamps)?

 

[Jasonharkin]

And I was informed by Darthurwells that the SA5000 was the best dynamic can under $2,000

 

[devwild]

I use the SA5000s with the Onix and M^3 and have been happy with that solution. I am going to swap the opamps in the Onix with 627s and imagine that will make it even better. The M^3 is really critical though, it is a good match in every way for the SA5000 - detailed, warm, and a very clean bass boost when it's needed.

I do think though that there is one other critical variable in my enjoyment of the SA5000s. The quieter I play them, the better the overall experience is. My prefered listening level is the minimum level needed to hear all details. With the SA5000 this works out great, because as you get louder the high end gets harsher and the over balance doesn't seem as natural. The details at low volumes with the SA5000s are absolutely outstanding for a dynamic can. The HD650 at the same level sounds like mud by comparison.

One side effect of this is if you are using an amp with a weak pot and/or an amp with high gain so you are stuck at the very base of the pot, the optimum level for the headphones is going to introduce imbalances between left/right channels.

It's not discussed much, but I have a feeling that volume level is actually a key difference between many people who like/don't like the SA5000s from what I've seen with meets and friends.

 

[Nepenthe]

I too listen very quietly. And you've highlighted one of the problems with the Xenos/SA5000 combo: My volume was just a hair past halfway past the "0" on the volume dial.

The cord/cup noise was jarring by comparison.

The 497s are so low impedance and high sensitivity as to be frustrating/unusable with the Xenos.

 

[cheechoz]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nepenthe And I'm not trying to stir anything up. And these reasons may seem odd to other owners. I generally really like the sound of these headphones. They're really nice. But: 1) the cord is so noisy: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=145432 It's funny that Salt Peanuts mentioned the term "microphonic" because I've also noticed what I think is the cable itself picking up electrical noise, as if it's incredibly badly shielded. 2) the soundstage/wideness is excellent, best I've ever heard, and unfortunately, that's a sort of a problem for me: http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=144657 At times this can be disconcerting and distracting. 3) the comfort is lacking. I think a conventional padded band would have worked nicely. It always feels like I'm wearing an "implement," and lying down to listen doesn't work very well (and is noisy). 4) the source and amp needed to match the performance of these headphones are priced well beyond what I'm willing to spend. The Onix and Xenos don't cut it, in that they're virtually indistinguishable from my Sony CDP-311 source and Aiwa AXR-005 receiver output. An $1800 CD player and $900 amp would be a start. The HD 497s are easy to just slip on. They're always comfortable and can be used lying down. They have no soundstage, which unfortunately is what I need to make the balance "normal" to me. They're not insulted by running them with an old department store CD player and a receiver. The cord is mostly noiseless and unintrusive. The sound isn't great but it's listenable and revealing enough. But I'll be looking for something else soon. I'm also probably going to sell the Onix and Xenos though.

Just to give my opinions, as to why you don't like the 5K.

1) I don't have any problem with cord noise, and this is coming from a former ER-4P owner, but I guess some people might find it distracting at low volumes.

2) For me, soundstage is not that important, but when it's there, it has the effect of being in front of the musicians, and sometimes that really adds to the enjoyment of the listening experience.

3) I have a big head, and have to open the 5K's all the way, but when I do, they just feel great over my ears. I guess the size of my ears are just right for them.

4) This is where I disagree with you the most!! I am using a Denon $300 CDP, and although I have a $1000 PPX3 Slam, I was using my SR-71, with awesome results. The detail was always there, and the, so called harsh highs, were not at all ear biting to me. They will no doubt benefit from a good tube amp, but you can get some great amps that pair well with the 5K, like the M^3, or Woo Audio.

 

[ken36]

But, the sound stage. To me that's a big plus.

 

[Veniogenesis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ken36 But, the sound stage. To me that's a big plus.

Ah, you and your woodies. Arrrrrrghhhhhh!!!

Oh how I wish I had a L3K. *cries*

As for the SA5K, I've been contemplating selling mine as well... but I doubt I'll do it. I really like it, but I just don't have the money to buy the source and amp to match it.