[matt8268]

  Thinking of getting the Lawton mod (or might just get the DIY kit and do it myself).
 
Was trying to decide between Stage 1 (tune-up & angle pads) or Stage 2 (tune-up, angle pads & bigger wooden cups).
 
Is the jump to stage 2 really worth it? Do the larger dimension wooden cups really help? I saw that the different wood types are supposed to give you a different flavor of sound and am kind of skeptical at the moment but it is interesting.

 
I did the Lawton mod myself on a D7000 (very similar to TH900). First I did the damping and angle pads and listened for a while, then later added a pair of deep wooden cups (from head-fier Lohb, not Lawton cups). The damping helps to tighen up the sound, increasing clarity and reducing reverb in the headphone. The deeper cups (mine are Monkey Pod wood) increase the soundstage, and for me really made everything snap into place. I know the pads on the TH900 are slightly different from the Denons, so keep that in mind. But I believe Lawton really found out how to make the Fostex-made cans sound their best, and that includes (among other things) the combination of the fatter angle pads plus the deeper cups. To do one without the other is to alter the intended listening geometry (distance from cup to speaker to ear) of each creator (Fostex's distances for stock, Lawton's distances for his mods).
 
With all that said, if you're going the DIY route like I did, you could order the tune-up and angle pads and install and listen to those for a while, then decide later whether to get the cups.

 

[AppleheadMay]

  Thinking of getting the Lawton mod (or might just get the DIY kit and do it myself).
 
Was trying to decide between Stage 1 (tune-up & angle pads) or Stage 2 (tune-up, angle pads & bigger wooden cups).
 
Is the jump to stage 2 really worth it? Do the larger dimension wooden cups really help? I saw that the different wood types are supposed to give you a different flavor of sound and am kind of skeptical at the moment but it is interesting.

Stage 1 or stage 2 uaed alone makes things worse, both in a different sense. Believe me, I tried all possible combos as I had 4 pairs of TH-900, one unmodded to compare with and three pairs to experiment with, one I modded step by step. Stage one mods need the deeper cups (Lawton or not as I discovered with very deep cups of my LaLaNo-7000 (as I call it).
 

I have done the Lawton 1 DIY with cable upgrade. The question to start with is why are you thinking about it. What bothers you or what are you seeking in the mod itself. This may help others direct you to which. IMO the cups are more aesthetic but I will differ to those with first hand knowledge

Agree with this statement but in the end it's the combination of the mods that does it. To be clear I mean dampening, deeper cups and thicker, angled earpads. The cable is optional but adds detail. How much detail? Depends on your hearing I guess, for me it was like turning the water tap wide open.
 

Hey guys, so after owning the th900s un amped for a while I wanted to ask,
how does the hpa8 effect bass quantity wise and treble?
Are there any other amps that tend to tame the treble and bring up the bass/mids?
If not, what amps are good at just reducing the treble and bringing out the mids?

Im looking for an amp/dac combo in the <1500$ range with these qualities if possible. Thanks guys!

For me Dac-amp combos didn't bring out the best of the TH-900. A nice dac of your choice paired with a Zana will.
If you really want to go the Dac-amp route the Marantz HD-Dac1 does what you descrbe best. It isn't a perfect solution but it does what you are asking.
And it costs half of what the A8 originally costed. Not sure what prices for it are these days. Just don't buy it simply because it is of the Fostex brand as well and assume that therefore it will give you the best results. The Marantz does exactly what you describe and does it very well. The only reason why I wouldn't recommend it is because i heard better with my separate amp and dac.
 

  You might be able to do it with a DAC/AMP but that's a lot of money to spend for that kind of thing. I found by EQing the 8 and 16k down 3-5 DB you can tame in the upper treble easily. You're just relaxing it. You have more control over it with an EQ, whereas if you spend 1500 on a DAC/AMP and it's still not tamed enough for you (but might perfect for someone else), then what?
 
 
Also, I think the Lawton Dampening kit helps too, but only by a small amount.

EQ-ing (by soft- or hardware) will always give you the desired results. I'm not a fan of it as in both situations you alter the signal and I love my signal put through as unaltered as possible. It sdoes do the trick though but I choose for a good dac of my prefernce and a good amp of my preference to get the desired result, which I do get. Makes one wonder though, my more expensive solution alters the signal to my liking as well while a simple piece of software can do the same .... Am I right in my choice? *shrug*
 

 
hpa8 has a supper low hit and rumble and mids bite. Fostex knew what they were doing with the match up, but it does not make it the best, depending on your preferences and amount of auditioning. now when i a/b against the hugo TT, at three times the price, I hear tighter low end, subtly less biting mids that come across as real and dynamic, the overall experience is more note worthy and sonically real and transparent. However i kept my hpa8 and use th900 exclusively through it. I use hd800S through the TT, dual amp and HP as it were. The A8 still slams that bass like a marshall stack at a glow stick rave convention. The mids cut like a knife and if there is any critique of it is the slight unrealness of that mid range, but you can see why foster opted for that and why it works as a whole. The A8 is endorsable another words 

 
I mostly agree with Whazzup's comments in this thread unless it concens the A8. I found it less than impressive but he loves it. Everyone's taste matters.
 

@whazzup - eq wil reduce the treble and increase the midrange and bass presence more effectively than the addition of a dac/amp will. that's all we're saying.

if sloomingbla wants to try and redress the issue by component matching then that's his prerogative. i'm not advocating eq as a cure all but it will enable him to adjust the th900's fr more precisely than component matching would. it's also a much cheaper option and easily reversed.

i think it's well worth exploring before embarking on physical mods and ancillary gear purchases.

See my comment on TWerk's post. Neither me nor you both are wrong or right. Your solution alters the signal path which I don't like but gives the desired results. My solution gives the desired results, theoretically speaking without altering the signal path. But in practice it does since we get a different sound be at at a higher cost. I'm starting to confuse myself here. So the last line in your comment absolutely makes sense and should be the first thing to explore, preferably with a free trial of software which wouldn't cost anything and gives you 30 days of experimenting.
 

   
I did the Lawton mod myself on a D7000 (very similar to TH900). First I did the damping and angle pads and listened for a while, then later added a pair of deep wooden cups (from head-fier Lohb, not Lawton cups). The damping helps to tighen up the sound, increasing clarity and reducing reverb in the headphone. The deeper cups (mine are Monkey Pod wood) increase the soundstage, and for me really made everything snap into place. I know the pads on the TH900 are slightly different from the Denons, so keep that in mind. But I believe Lawton really found out how to make the Fostex-made cans sound their best, and that includes (among other things) the combination of the fatter angle pads plus the deeper cups. To do one without the other is to alter the intended listening geometry (distance from cup to speaker to ear) of each creator (Fostex's distances for stock, Lawton's distances for his mods).
 
With all that said, if you're going the DIY route like I did, you could order the tune-up and angle pads and install and listen to those for a while, then decide later whether to get the cups.

 
The Lawton Fostex mods aren't similar to the Denon mods, they're actually about the same and are meant to do the same thing allbeit an improved version with different materials for the dampening. The D-7000 is different from the TH-900 however, the TH-900 simply is a perfected version of the D-7000.
Matt is right, the stage 1 mods alone don't do the trick without bigger cups, be they Lawton or not (I had much bigger cups with the LaLaNo 7000). Indeed, the fatter and angled pads should be a part of it as well. In my experience using only the pads made an improvemtnt, but using only one of the two other mods made it worse. The combo of the three gave the best results. Adding the cable makes it better, it gives you "more" of the same at a rather high cost but iot doesn't make it more right. IMO an expensive pair of phones like this is worth the price to get the best out of it but that's as matter everyone should decide for themselves. In any case I'd advise to either do the three mods (dampening, pads and cups) together or don't do them at all.

 

[up late]

See my comment on TWerk's post. Neither me nor you both are wrong or right. Your solution alters the signal path which I don't like but gives the desired results. My solution gives the desired results, theoretically speaking without altering the signal path. But in practice it does since we get a different sound be at at a higher cost. I'm starting to confuse myself here. So the last line in your comment absolutely makes sense and should be the first thing to explore, preferably with a free trial of software which wouldn't cost anything and gives you 30 days of experimenting.

this isn't about you or me being right or wrong. however, i do question your reasoning when you take a seemingly purist approach to not altering "the signal path", while thinking nothing of replacing original parts of the th900 that fundamentally change both its sound and appearance.

 

[TWerk]

My issue with the DAC/AMP solution is that it can take a bunch of tries to get it right. I agree, altering the signal isn't ideal, but buying 3 different amps and still not having it just how you want it is even less ideal. He's looking to spend more on the amp now, than the actual headphone itself.
 
That's not to say he won't get it right on his first try, but it's probably unlikely the first go will be perfect. The EQ goes straight to the issue. Sure, you can talk about modifying the signal, but really, how much is he doing by sliding a few DB's down in the troublesome higher frequencies?
 
It's not like he's no longer getting the benefits of his TH900... (Mostly) Everything will come through, except the annoying parts which will be nerfed.

 

[TWerk]

 

 

 
I listen to most of my stuff in iTunes. This is their EQ menu. You can make it any way you like. I like the 900 setting (really smoothes them out), but you can play around with the overall trimming on the treble like in 901 or 902 (also great).
 
Literally free and you can get it how you want it. Easy to switch around too, you're not stuck with one setting always. I am mainly only concerned with the 8k and 16k as you can see. I only cut them by like 2-6 DB. I think it's more the very upper treble (16K) that bothers me. I do listen to them stock often, it's just nice to have options.
 
The great part is when you pull down that upper treble, you can push up the volume, and get that explosively powerful bass and a louder midrange without the treble getting out of hand. Once you get treble in check, the mids and bass come more forward, relatively speaking.

 

[pervysage]

Stage 1 or stage 2 uaed alone makes things worse, both in a different sense. Believe me, I tried all possible combos as I had 4 pairs of TH-900, one unmodded to compare with and three pairs to experiment with, one I modded step by step. Stage one mods need the deeper cups (Lawton or not as I discovered with very deep cups of my LaLaNo-7000 (as I call it).

Agree with this statement but in the end it's the combination of the mods that does it. To be clear I mean dampening, deeper cups and thicker, angled earpads. The cable is optional but adds detail. How much detail? Depends on your hearing I guess, for me it was like turning the water tap wide open.

For me Dac-amp combos didn't bring out the best of the TH-900. A nice dac of your choice paired with a Zana will.
If you really want to go the Dac-amp route the Marantz HD-Dac1 does what you descrbe best. It isn't a perfect solution but it does what you are asking.
And it costs half of what the A8 originally costed. Not sure what prices for it are these days. Just don't buy it simply because it is of the Fostex brand as well and assume that therefore it will give you the best results. The Marantz does exactly what you describe and does it very well. The only reason why I wouldn't recommend it is because i heard better with my separate amp and dac.

EQ-ing (by soft- or hardware) will always give you the desired results. I'm not a fan of it as in both situations you alter the signal and I love my signal put through as unaltered as possible. It sdoes do the trick though but I choose for a good dac of my prefernce and a good amp of my preference to get the desired result, which I do get. Makes one wonder though, my more expensive solution alters the signal to my liking as well while a simple piece of software can do the same .... Am I right in my choice? *shrug*


I mostly agree with Whazzup's comments in this thread unless it concens the A8. I found it less than impressive but he loves it. Everyone's taste matters.

See my comment on TWerk's post. Neither me nor you both are wrong or right. Your solution alters the signal path which I don't like but gives the desired results. My solution gives the desired results, theoretically speaking without altering the signal path. But in practice it does since we get a different sound be at at a higher cost. I'm starting to confuse myself here. So the last line in your comment absolutely makes sense and should be the first thing to explore, preferably with a free trial of software which wouldn't cost anything and gives you 30 days of experimenting.


The Lawton Fostex mods aren't similar to the Denon mods, they're actually about the same and are meant to do the same thing allbeit an improved version with different materials for the dampening. The D-7000 is different from the TH-900 however, the TH-900 simply is a perfected version of the D-7000.
Matt is right, the stage 1 mods alone don't do the trick without bigger cups, be they Lawton or not (I had much bigger cups with the LaLaNo 7000). Indeed, the fatter and angled pads should be a part of it as well. In my experience using only the pads made an improvemtnt, but using only one of the two other mods made it worse. The combo of the three gave the best results. Adding the cable makes it better, it gives you "more" of the same at a rather high cost but iot doesn't make it more right. IMO an expensive pair of phones like this is worth the price to get the best out of it but that's as matter everyone should decide for themselves. In any case I'd advise to either do the three mods (dampening, pads and cups) together or don't do them at all.

What does everyone think as far as picking the cups go? Lawton website says the different types of wood will give off a different flavor of sound? Type 1 being the warmest and Type 5 being the most analytical. But what if I want the really nice looking black cups which are only available in Type 5 but want a warmer sound?

Basically, just wondering if the "Tonewood's" as they call them would make that much of a difference.

 

[Whazzzup]

Stage 1 or stage 2 uaed alone makes things worse, both in a different sense. Believe me, I tried all possible combos as I had 4 pairs of TH-900, one unmodded to compare with and three pairs to experiment with, one I modded step by step. Stage one mods need the deeper cups (Lawton or not as I discovered with very deep cups of my LaLaNo-7000 (as I call it).

Agree with this statement but in the end it's the combination of the mods that does it. To be clear I mean dampening, deeper cups and thicker, angled earpads. The cable is optional but adds detail. How much detail? Depends on your hearing I guess, for me it was like turning the water tap wide open.

For me Dac-amp combos didn't bring out the best of the TH-900. A nice dac of your choice paired with a Zana will.
If you really want to go the Dac-amp route the Marantz HD-Dac1 does what you descrbe best. It isn't a perfect solution but it does what you are asking.
And it costs half of what the A8 originally costed. Not sure what prices for it are these days. Just don't buy it simply because it is of the Fostex brand as well and assume that therefore it will give you the best results. The Marantz does exactly what you describe and does it very well. The only reason why I wouldn't recommend it is because i heard better with my separate amp and dac.

EQ-ing (by soft- or hardware) will always give you the desired results. I'm not a fan of it as in both situations you alter the signal and I love my signal put through as unaltered as possible. It sdoes do the trick though but I choose for a good dac of my prefernce and a good amp of my preference to get the desired result, which I do get. Makes one wonder though, my more expensive solution alters the signal to my liking as well while a simple piece of software can do the same .... Am I right in my choice? *shrug*


I mostly agree with Whazzup's comments in this thread unless it concens the A8. I found it less than impressive but he loves it. Everyone's taste matters.

See my comment on TWerk's post. Neither me nor you both are wrong or right. Your solution alters the signal path which I don't like but gives the desired results. My solution gives the desired results, theoretically speaking without altering the signal path. But in practice it does since we get a different sound be at at a higher cost. I'm starting to confuse myself here. So the last line in your comment absolutely makes sense and should be the first thing to explore, preferably with a free trial of software which wouldn't cost anything and gives you 30 days of experimenting.


The Lawton Fostex mods aren't similar to the Denon mods, they're actually about the same and are meant to do the same thing allbeit an improved version with different materials for the dampening. The D-7000 is different from the TH-900 however, the TH-900 simply is a perfected version of the D-7000.
Matt is right, the stage 1 mods alone don't do the trick without bigger cups, be they Lawton or not (I had much bigger cups with the LaLaNo 7000). Indeed, the fatter and angled pads should be a part of it as well. In my experience using only the pads made an improvemtnt, but using only one of the two other mods made it worse. The combo of the three gave the best results. Adding the cable makes it better, it gives you "more" of the same at a rather high cost but iot doesn't make it more right. IMO an expensive pair of phones like this is worth the price to get the best out of it but that's as matter everyone should decide for themselves. In any case I'd advise to either do the three mods (dampening, pads and cups) together or don't do them at all.

What does everyone think as far as picking the cups go? Lawton says the different types of wood will give off a different flavor of sound? Type 1 being the warmest and Type 5 being the most analytical. But what if I want the really nice looking black cups which are only available in Type 5 but want a warmer sound?

Basically, just wondering if the "Tonewood's" as they call them would make that much of a difference.

Well I just ordered Museum grade Hawaiian Koa Chambers type 2. Since I have the angle pads and the type1 tune up already, and cable upgrade. I'm going full Lawton, in about 4-6 weeks.

 

[AppleheadMay]

What does everyone think as far as picking the cups go? Lawton website says the different types of wood will give off a different flavor of sound? Type 1 being the warmest and Type 5 being the most analytical. But what if I want the really nice looking black cups which are only available in Type 5 but want a warmer sound?

Basically, just wondering if the "Tonewood's" as they call them would make that much of a difference.

 
I tried the two extremes, type 1 and type 5 next to each other and couldn't notice a difference. So as far as the choice of woods go I would choose based on looks alone. IMO it's the bigger cups that do the trick, not the different wood. The backside of the cup is dampened anyway.

 

[gikigill]

Just joined the TH900 club. Not the Mk2 though.

 

[kurochin]

Just joined the TH900 club. Not the Mk2 though.

Which means you got the pretty version without those afterthought cable sockets. Congrats!!

 

[gikigill]

Yup, had my eye on it for some time. A good contrast to the HD800.

 

[Whazzzup]

Yup, had my eye on it for some time. A good contrast to the HD800.

ditto but for the "S" version 

 

[gikigill]

Tried the S version, kept the Original and got the TH900. My HD800 with the SEX sounds very similar to the S version however the TH900 doesn't like valve amps. I'm powering the TH900 with the PPA V2, Pulse Xfi and Geek Out 1000 with brilliant results.

 

[bigbeard]

What is the best price you all have seen for the th900?
 
I also have an hd800, but sometimes I just want something more fun.
 
I saw the th900 on amazon for almost 1k, a while back.
 
I might consider buying used, if in good shape. But I like new, clean things.

 

[gikigill]

1k is a good price. I paid around the same.