[ph0b]

Hey all, my 1st post here so please be gentle..

I spent all day yesterday trying to decide which mp3/video player and headphone combination to go with as for years now I've been meaning to get one but never really looked into it so naturally I was shocked to find so many of them now... Anyway, I decided on the Zen for a number of reasons, expansion slot being one of the big deciding factors and perks like being able to play video and stuff as well, but in the end I just want the songs to sound AMAZING...

I was ready to get the 16GB Zen + the UE Triple.fi 10 Pro's from Amazon (I have a $50 gift cert, from xmas) but luckily found these forums and so it's on hold for now... I'm looking to buy something real soon and so I need some answers as the original poster did, I didn't want to start a new thread because one already exists and don't mean to hijack theirs, so if I could get a couple of pointers, it'd be great.. I know next to nothing about EQ, Amps, or any of this audio stuff and am a complete noob so I know some will just get agitated but I'm willing to stick around and learn.. People think I'm crazy for spending $330+ for headphones which cost more then the Zen but I want to start out with something better than average as I really need to feel the music I'm listening to...

Thanks in advance!

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

I was ready to get the 16GB Zen + the UE Triple.fi 10 Pro's from Amazon (I have a $50 gift cert, from xmas) but luckily found these forums and so it's on hold for now...

Actually that would be a pretty good choice.

If you deslect something because one or two people here bitch about them then you'll never buy anything. Look for the majority of opinion instead, most of which is very positive about both the Zen and TF10.

 

[battleMAUS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ph0b /img/forum/go_quote.gif context

thats an awesome rig if you decide to get it. creative is well known for the sound quality. what other players do you have in mind?

 

[ph0b]

Thanks for the fast replies! Yes, I guess this is true with anything, there will always be a difference of opinion/preference so go with the majority.. I'm just afraid to go with something "mainstream" as the Ipod, Zen, Walkman, etc because I know when you start getting into it, you find out that these just won't get the job done... I've been into modding/overclocking custom built PC's and so I quickly realized that the stuff regular computers (Dell, Compaq, HP, etc) come with won't get the job done and you need specific parts, etc so I can't help but wonder something like that MUST be true for these players as far as people in the know and an "audiophile" is concerned and so I just don't want to regret my decision later on...

I looked at opinions on Sony and iRiver and people seem to think they have better sound quality etc, I don't know if I'll be able to tell the difference in sound honestly as I'm inexperienced but I basically just want to spend a good amount of money and won't regret it in the long run and as I learn more about this stuff, I'll probably start modding or getting an amp maybe...

I'm comfortable with the decision I made with the headphones as I read many reviews and it was just the right balance of affordability vs quality so I basically need help trying to decide what mp3 player would suit my needs... Thanks for reinforcing the fact that the above mentioned setup would be pretty good, it's still my preference and the reason it's on hold is because I just wanted to get some feedback before I take a $500+ plunge and I know when you start getting REALLY into this kind of stuff, custom hobbies can be very expensive...

Anyway, I was also looking at SanDisk and a few others, just because they have other "gadgets" like video out or expansion slots... I don't care about and FM Tuner or voice recorder, they are useless for me, but that 80GB ipod classic does look good simply because it's 80 gigs, not that I have that many songs but we always want more don't we.. I think 16GB with expandable is more than enough for me..

Thanks!

 

[zip22]

have you read about the issue with the zen's SD expansion slot? the content on the SD card is not integrated into your library for browsing. you need to navigate the SD card contents in a separate menu. there is speculation that this will be fixed in a firmware update, but right now the SD content stays separate from the tag browsing.

 

[shigzeo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gurra1980 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Can you explain what it is you don't like? is it the bigger soundstage, the clearer sound or is it that the EQ is useless. Personaly I don't use the EQ, it's fine without. I can understand why some don't like the zen, I guess it's becase the sound is neutral and not as colored as other players and the EQ is useless so people can't SRS WOW mach3bass 3Dsurrond or bassboost the sound, but these things has nothing to do with good sound quality. (Not saying that this is the reason that you don't like it, iPod is also quite neutral)

sounds like the reason they don't like the ipod. same thing. been called too neutral and no effects. i suppose then that zen and apple vs cowon is quite a segmented battle. the zen do sound nice. i prefer it and the ipod to the competition. the ipod however does have the option for line out - a huge lead

 

[subfocus]

* oops

 

[rockbottom]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif sounds like the reason they don't like the ipod. same thing. been called too neutral and no effects. i suppose then that zen and apple vs cowon is quite a segmented battle. the zen do sound nice. i prefer it and the ipod to the competition. the ipod however does have the option for line out - a huge lead

The line-out may not be that big of an issue unless if a portable amp is going to be used.

The Zen does have that SD card integration problem that has gotten 280+ replies on their forum. They have been making some work-arounds like copying from SD card to the internal memory.

Their official response was that the MTP makes this issue impossible to fix and that the player is behaving "as designed". This has made many people on there very upset with their customer service.

The features that have been requested include full integration of the media library, bookmarking of videos, etc.

A D2 would be very nice if a screen is important for you. The specs are more-or-less similar, so, just something you should consider.

 

[ILikeMusic]

Quote:

Their official response was that the MTP makes this issue impossible to fix and that the player is behaving "as designed". This has made many people on there very upset with their customer service.

I'm not sure why this would make anyone upset with their customer service dept... customer service didn't design the thing.

I can think of several issues involved with fully integrating an external memory card with the internal library. MTP is one, or even how to handle indexing the tracks on the external card into the player's existing library. Would the two automatically 'sync' (as one might sync with a PC) when the card is inserted? How would this be managed? etc. It's not so easy as it seems.

Hopefully these issues can be overcome as full integration of SD card memory would be a very desirable feature. But even as is the SD card is quite useful, i.e. you can store your movies on it and not have to displace music capacity from the internal memory. The iPod Touch doesn't have any expansion capacity after all, with it you have to fit your music and movies into the paltry 16 gb. But then again if customers are going to endlessly bitch about card integration then maybe they made the right decision...

 

[Gurra1980]

Quote:

Originally Posted by shigzeo /img/forum/go_quote.gif sounds like the reason they don't like the ipod. same thing. been called too neutral and no effects. i suppose then that zen and apple vs cowon is quite a segmented battle. the zen do sound nice. i prefer it and the ipod to the competition. the ipod however does have the option for line out - a huge lead

Yes I thought so to, but having owned one I can see that the 3D imaging is not very good, the stereo separation isn't very good either and the sound was hard with a little treble "grainyness" is that a word? of course if I hadn't been living with my Home rig before this I wouldn't have heard this. And the iPod was OK, better than iriver T60. You're right, line out would be a good idea though, not possible with Zen.

 

[ph0b]

Sorry for my ignorance but what's the deal with line out? I know it's cleaner but is the difference in sound that much noticeable unless you guys are hooking it up to an amp, which i know nothing about, maybe this isn't the right thread to ask this...

Also, I was kinda bummed out about the SD integration thing, but I like the suggestion of having movies, pics, etc on the SD and just music on internal mem... I could live with that.

 

[shigzeo]

line out has no amplification in the path. essentially, it is as clean as a source can get without massive mods. the ipod has several amp stages (sort of) that the line out bypasses and allows you to hook up to a dedicated amp if you want. i mentioned it because for those of you who like portables with amps, it is a good idea, otehrwise, it takes the whole portability down completely. i have a supermicro iv and a line out for my ipod touch -sounds wonderful however it is a big shock to the pocket player idea.

i use it at home or sometimes on long trips, otherwise, it is straight from the headphone out. most players these days have amazing headphone outs and there is little difference unless you really listen and even then it is usually up to just preferences. reading specs too is a very funny thing as all specs are based on the internal hardware before the output stage is hit: amp. so, no player will ever have 90db of performance though they might say they can perform 90db or even higher.

with an external amp and line out, then it is possible to get higher. probably with imod, you basically get the performance of the outboard amp, so in my case, 112 db of separation if i had imod. i have a cowon d2 as well as meizu m6 and of all the players, the cowon sometimes feels most right, but has the smallest soundstage for trance and basically does not fit my listening style at all. it is much bigger than all similarly equipped flash players as well. cheers

 

[rockbottom]

For some reason...even though it's connecting out of the docking connector, my brother's ipod FM transmitter's volume is still controlled by the ipod volume control...any idea? Sorry this is kinda off-topic.

 

[shigzeo]

could be that the volume wheel on the ipod is not for the amp but for the dac and it is fed to the amp or line out. remember that the wheel is just an interface, not connected to anything more than probably anything else that is on the mainboard, far from the output stage. cheers

 

[Gurra1980]

You might want to consider creative zen v instead of zen the soundquality is just as good, I get white screen of deth all the time today and have tested the different firmwares they don't help now I can't get it to start at all even with reset. damn! I loved this player before.