Foobar2000 output settings unclear

[droid23]

Hello, is there someone who can explain to me what the following Foobar output settings do?
I usually know a few things about it and I think I have basic understanding of it, but after researching the interwebs before my post here, things became more unclear than before.

My setup: Quite new Win11 gaming laptop with i7, 4080, and 64 Gigs of RAM > good USB A>B cable to > Topping DX9. Audio software Foobar2000, dedicated DX9 Topping drivers installed, ASIO and WASAPI, as well as DSD related components installed > Windows audio settings doublechecked and optimized anyway. All is working well now after I surprisingly had some cracks/dropouts in the beginning when playing higher res files, but I increased the buffer size and all is good... BUT:

As you can see in the screenshot, I have the following output options, the ones I want to ask here in this thread are highlighted:

As usual, I go for WASAPI event output, configure it for 32 bit (as it should be when you output something to a 32 bit capable DAC) and, as said before, all sounds and works as it should. But out of curiosity, I also tried the other options, WASAPI push, ASIO, and last but not least, the "Default" exclusive mode.

Now I have to say, after hours of A/B'ing between these two highlighted options, I can't understand that Default exclusive sounds a bit better, fuller, more resolving!?!
> can that be? Shouldn't all "Default" output modes be handled still by the Windows mixer?... which should definitely be sub-par to WASAPI?

What I also found was, that so many search results and explanations of "how to set up Foobar" were stating that there should be WASAPI event, WASAPI push, and WASAPI exclusive modes to choose from... I don't have a WASAPI exclusive mode at all there? ...only under the Default output settings the additional "exclusive" mode shows up. Of course I installed the latest WASAPI version "foo_out_wasapi (2020-12-30 11:08:46 UTC) WASAPI output support 3.4".


Any hints and explanations? ...or am I getting paranoid?

Thanks a lot in advance,

droid

 

[Svperstar]

Have you tried MusicBee? I switched from Foobar years ago. It "just works" and everything is built in, no plugins needed.

 

[droid23]

Nice, thxx! I definitely have a look at this program. Looks good.

 

[Svperstar]

I just set it to WASAPI ( Shared ) and listen to everything that way. Works fine. It also has the same plugin support as Foobar, for example you can use the Audeze Reveal plugin if you want. However I don't do any crazy plugins or EQ with MusicBee. I use Equalizer APO and my RME for that, no issues with MusicBee

 

[droid23]

I just set it to WASAPI ( Shared )

Thanks for your Input, but I also don't have WASAPI shared to select in the list... strange, no shared, no exclusive... I wonder if the Topping Win driver interferes here with the Foobar outputs? No clue.

 

[Svperstar]

If you have Foobar and MusicBee open at the same time they might conflict. You could also check if there is a new driver for the Topping on ASR, I found one for my D30 on there.

 

[castleofargh]

Wasapi is now integrated to foobar(or is it only the 64 bit version?). Anyway, what I’m seeing on your screenshot looks like the wasapi component on top of the already integrated wasapi(the exclusive option that doesn’t say wasapi but is it). I don’t think there is a point to using the component now. Maybe for a few really old DACs? IDK

 

[droid23]

Wasapi is now integrated to foobar(or is it only the 64 bit version?). Anyway, what I’m seeing on your screenshot looks like the wasapi component on top of the already integrated wasapi(the exclusive option that doesn’t say wasapi but is it). I don’t think there is a point to using the component now. Maybe for a few really old DACs? IDK

You're completely right sir! You gave me the key learning here and things became much clearer now, because WASAPI was integrated in Foobar2000 from v2.x and higher.

There is no longer WASAPI "event", "push", "shared" to select. Actually there's even no longer WASAPI at all! Now there is the "Default" class and within it, if you see an output with "[exclusive]", that is WASAPI and in the end, these are the modes which bypass the Windows audio mixer. (unless you make the same mistake like me, and install an older redundant version of WASAPI drivers on top of it)

How should one intuitively know that when there's nowhere WASAPI written anymore, hehe.

Thanks again!
But maybe it's truly time to look out for another music player... oh god, there are so many to try and I'll begin with MusicBee.

 

[Roseval]

One of the things you can do in Musicbee is selecting WASAPI (Exclusive)

https://www.thewelltemperedcomputer.com/SW/Players/MusicBee/MusicBee_audio.htm

 

[sajunky]

You're completely right sir! You gave me the key learning here and things became much clearer now, because WASAPI was integrated in Foobar2000 from v2.x and higher.

There is no longer WASAPI "event", "push", "shared" to select. Actually there's even no longer WASAPI at all! Now there is the "Default" class and within it, if you see an output with "[exclusive]", that is WASAPI and in the end, these are the modes which bypass the Windows audio mixer. (unless you make the same mistake like me, and install an older redundant version of WASAPI drivers on top of it)

To add to the previous response, since the version 1.6, Foobar dropped default interface called Direct Sound and switched to WASAPI.

Now WASAPI is a default Foobar interface, if doesn't say 'exclusive', it is shared. Shared goes through system mixer and output sample rate is controlled in the Windows sound applet for all programs.

Uninstall WASAPI component, it is not needed anymore. There is still control in a case you need use 'push' synchronisation method. It is obsolete, so is moved to the advanced section. For a modern DAC like Toping you don't need to look there, default is 'event'.

 

[sajunky]

@droid23. Check out, there is Youtube Source component for Foobar.

 

[droid23]

My journey continues... but first, thanks so much for your many tips, tricks and suggestions! Awesome, and it proves that the audio community is one special kind, never saw, for so many years in any forum, so constantly helpful people. Cordially thanks again!

I surprisingly had some cracks/dropouts in the beginning when playing higher res files, but I increased the buffer size and all is good...

...these sporadic cracks were actually not gone, just came much less often since I increased the buffer size, like only once or twice per minute audible only on more quiet tracks. Before, they were at least every 10 seconds or more, and so easy to point out. I tried for many hours to solve this problem, De- and re-installations of Foobar, all components, tried to run with a minimal setup without any components, played around with output settings, changed USB cable, played around with the windows audio and even uninstalled Realtek drivers, and some more... and indeed I tried MusicBee. All that changed nothing!
But one thing I didn't even think of uninstalling, were the official Topping DX9 Windows drivers. I thought, ok, now I also get rid of these and theoretically Windows should at least recognise the DX9 as an "external soundcard" even without the Topping drivers.... and yes, my Amp/DAC was even recognized as "DX9" without dedicated drivers. After opening MusicBee again, and setting the correct output again, my music plays flawlessly WITHOUT cracks!! So, in the end it was the Topping DX9 driver which caused the cracks. Top job Topping... not.

 

[sajunky]

@droid23. Glad, you found a problem, you are proactive user.


That's correct. Topping XMOS based DACs are UAC 2.0 compatible and Windows will use built-in drivers. Unless you want to play Native DSD using ASIO output (which is not easy to setup in Foobar) you can stay with Windows drivers.

New version of Windows can break older drivers, but I think Topping drivers were installed incorrectly. Here is a tip. Drivers must be installed with a DAC unplugged and any remaining old drivers uninstalled. Run setup follow prompts and plug in USB cable only after setup is complete or asking to do so. Good luck!

 

[droid23]

Oh man, thanks again for this perfect hint!
Of course I installed the Topping drivers with the DX9 connected ... a classical user problem .

Today I'll try these drivers again with the correct setup method. Let's see.