Focal Arche: Anyone compared to other options in its price range?

[NCUS]

I have not had any handshake issues with my Arche which came with 01.01.08. I suspect this is because I had handshake issues with my Schiit Audio stacks so inserted external USB hubs in the signal chain already which fixed the issue for me with those devices, so I have continued the practice with the Arche.

With Windows I use a powered Sabrent USB 3.0 hub. Plus a Schiit Wyrd "USB Decrapifier." The powered hub fixed the handshake issues and did not degrade the sound in any way. The Wyrd did nothing audible to help or hurt, but I kept it.

With MAC I use a CalDigit TS3 Plus as port replicator. I've used that with both USB and optical S/PDIF to the Arche. It is convenient to use the optical from MAC and USB from Windows to have input switching with the Arche. Both sound about the same to me.

I've also swapped between Amazon Basics USB cable, cheap Monoprice, nicer Monoprice Monolith, and Schiit Pyst. I like the look of the Pyst and Monolith cables so I'm using those, but honestly, they all sound the same and none fixed the handshake issues on their own.

This is a digital signal. For the most part it works or doesn't- and doesn't change the sound. And if you are having a handshake issue, it isn't working. So just try a powered USB hub without worrying about it degrading the sound.

That's interesting, perhaps certain devices have some voltage swings as they put things to sleep to save power? A powered hub, I'm assuming wouldn't have that issue and maybe that's why they are more stable into the Arche.

Thanks @Gadget67, you make a good point.

I may have to look at the "Chord TT2/M-Scaler combination" but I was hoping the Arche would serve me well for a couple of years at least.

I'm a little curious. Do you like the sound of the Arche? If so, it would be extreme to spend $10K on equipment to simply solve a connection issue. As I said before, you can buy a streamer for much less. Toslink and coax connections have zero connection issues with the Arche.

 

[ASIN]

It is not my intention to offend anyone, I know this issue divides a lot of us, I am just writing from my experience. I have a good Windows and Apple audio set up, but awhile back I was invited to listen to some dedicated sources, they sounded great, but I was using Utopias through an expensive amp in a very comfortable listening room, so I put it down to the expensive amp and went home still believing that all digital sources were equal in the listening equation. Yet the frustration of not having that great amp to play my music through was frustrating, I already had a Sony TA-ZH1ES and could not justify buying one with an additional "0" on the end. Then last year I purchased a Sony portable DAP to listen to music on the go, and that sounded so superior to my home computer setup. I know that it is all supposed to be 1s and 0s from the source, but the Sony, played through my (at the time) Sony TAZZY amp sounded so much better than from my Apple computer. Through a hi-fi shop I was allowed to borrow a couple of high-end dedicated sources, one of them sounded far cleaner than even my Sony (previously I had suspected the Sony digital processing was why that player was better than my Apple computer), that is how I ended up buying a Melco player. I started out thinking that all digital sources sounded the same, or at least should, but I trust my ears (I once worked as a producer and owned a small record label). Trusting my ears is why I upgraded to the Arche from the Sony. I still use my Apple set up occasionally, I still use my Sony player on the go, they are all supposed to play the same ones and zeros, but the sound it so much clearer on my Melco-Arche-Focal set up when compared that I can no longer believe, "This is a digital signal. For the most part it works or doesn't- and doesn't change the sound." I am not trying to convert anyone - believe me I wish it sounded as good from my Apple - but my ears tell me that a dedicated purpose built source does change the sound. Last month I home tested the Melco N1ZS/2, it sells for £9,990, but it sounded worth the price compared to my current Melco N1A/2 (Sony, Apple or Windows sources), so much better that I have started saving to buy it. Maybe it is just me, but it would not hurt anyone to take their favorite headphones to a hi-fi shop and compare them, if you have a good relationship they may even let you home test one. Sorry this is not a shorter post, I just felt I needed to answer why I am not willing to insert anything else into the audio chain. Respect to all who believe different.

 

[DerrickW]

It is not my intention to offend anyone, I know this issue divides a lot of us, I am just writing from my experience. I have a good Windows and Apple audio set up, but awhile back I was invited to listen to some dedicated sources, they sounded great, but I was using Utopias through an expensive amp in a very comfortable listening room, so I put it down to the expensive amp and went home still believing that all digital sources were equal in the listening equation. Yet the frustration of not having that great amp to play my music through was frustrating, I already had a Sony TA-ZH1ES and could not justify buying one with an additional "0" on the end. Then last year I purchased a Sony portable DAP to listen to music on the go, and that sounded so superior to my home computer setup. I know that it is all supposed to be 1s and 0s from the source, but the Sony, played through my (at the time) Sony TAZZY amp sounded so much better than from my Apple computer. Through a hi-fi shop I was allowed to borrow a couple of high-end dedicated sources, one of them sounded far cleaner than even my Sony (previously I had suspected the Sony digital processing was why that player was better than my Apple computer), that is how I ended up buying a Melco player. I started out thinking that all digital sources sounded the same, or at least should, but I trust my ears (I once worked as a producer and owned a small record label). Trusting my ears is why I upgraded to the Arche from the Sony. I still use my Apple set up occasionally, I still use my Sony player on the go, they are all supposed to play the same ones and zeros, but the sound it so much clearer on my Melco-Arche-Focal set up when compared that I can no longer believe, "This is a digital signal. For the most part it works or doesn't- and doesn't change the sound." I am not trying to convert anyone - believe me I wish it sounded as good from my Apple - but my ears tell me that a dedicated purpose built source does change the sound. Last month I home tested the Melco N1ZS/2, it sells for £9,990, but it sounded worth the price compared to my current Melco N1A/2 (Sony, Apple or Windows sources), so much better that I have started saving to buy it. Maybe it is just me, but it would not hurt anyone to take their favorite headphones to a hi-fi shop and compare them, if you have a good relationship they may even let you home test one. Sorry this is not a shorter post, I just felt I needed to answer why I am not willing to insert anything else into the audio chain. Respect to all who believe different.

No offense taken at all.

Different sources could general different signals, with say different levels of jitter right? Personally, I prefer my Mytek Manhattan with the internal network streamer over using the USB input from an external computer. I'm not sure I could pass a proper A/B comparison though.

My comment about digital working or not and not changing the sound was aimed more at the signal transportation. IE getting the digital signal from the source to the DAC doesn't seem to be influenced much by changing a digital USB cable composition. So I wouldn't be afraid to try introducing a powered hub into the usb signal chain if it fixes the handshake issues.

 

[ASIN]

Thank you @DerrickW. I may ask if I can borrow a few cables and test them. I do agree that in theory, as long as the conductor is a decent quality it should not change the signature sound, but I am tempted by Wireworld insulating the power from the signal and I hope to test it soon, currently I only use a middle-of-the-road Audioquest Coffee, so I hope this will not end up costing me again

 

[DerrickW]

Thank you @DerrickW. I may ask if I can borrow a few cables and test them. I do agree that in theory, as long as the conductor is a decent quality it should not change the signature sound, but I am tempted by Wireworld insulating the power from the signal and I hope to test it soon, currently I only use a middle-of-the-road Audioquest Coffee, so I hope this will not end up costing me again

Ironic to bring up Audioquest, I am listening to my Stellias on an Audioquest Dragonfly Cobalt while typing this. Shockingly great little product by the way! But their whole portable DAC/amp is cheaper than a Coffee USB cable! Kinda crazy if you ask me for a digital cable unless you really can tell a difference in your setup. Since you already have such a nice USB cable, have you tried comparing it directly to far cheaper options A/B in your system? You can grab a Monoprice Monolith USB cable with 22AWG OFC power conductors and 23AWG silver plated signal conductors for $10 to test.

 

[ASIN]

Yes I have, that is why I purchased the AQ. I have not tested any better than the Coffee, but compared to cheap cables I can discern a difference.

 

[Gadget67]

Yes I have, that is why I purchased the AQ. I have not tested any better than the Coffee, but compared to cheap cables I can discern a difference.

Totally agree.

 

[Gadget67]

So, the USB issues continue with the Arche. Here is the text of a post I made in the M-Scaler thread:

“So, as part of my ongoing “continuous improvement” quest, I just purchased a TOSLINK / MINIPLUG Premium Silflex Glass Cable from Lifatec. I’ve been experimenting with an inexpensive Toslink (BlueRigger digital optical) with my Focal Arche and the improvement was pretty dramatic. The Arche has issues connecting to Audirvana through USB (USB connectivity is a known issue with the Arche) so Toslink connected with zero issues. Clarity, separation, bass slam are fantastic with my Utopia so I’m anxious to try this route with the M-Scaler/TT2. Others have reported that the Lifatec Toslink cable doesn’t have any issues plugging in to the M-Scaler so I’m interested to see how that goes. @Torq posted on another forum that the Lifatec is the only Toslink he can recommend and others have agreed that this is the go to choice, even comparing it to the Audioquest Diamond. It’s about 1/5 the price as well; it’ll be here Friday. We shall see...listening to the Arche as I write this.”

I‘m very pleased with the Toslink connection. I’m currently using Audirvana from my MacBook Pro and, while Audirvana can “see” the Arche, it just simply won’t connect via USB. I’ve also pulled my B&W MM2 near field speakers out of deep storage and also connected them to the Arche feeding music through the Toslink connection from the MacBook Pro. These speakers have NEVER sounded better! The Arche now compares very favorably to my Chord TT2/M-Scaler combination!

A gratuitous picture:

 

[Gadget67]

A quick follow up; my Lifatec Toslink arrived today. It’s fantastic with my TT2/M-Scaler and will be ordering another for the Arche! Fabulous!

 

[supermj]

There is talk that the Arche is going to be discontinued, has anyone else heard anything ?

 

[YegDude]

Good evening everyone.

I got a stellar deal on a Focal Arche a few weeks ago that I was not able to pass on but I have a nagging feeling that I should have purchased the RME ADI 2 DAC FS.

I can not find any comparisons between the two and wanted to know if anyone has had the opportunity to A/B them that can give me some notes on differences to sway me one direction or another.

I like the sound of the Arche as well as the analogue inputs that the ADI doesn’t have but the other options that the RME ADI 2 give are very compelling. I listen through USB from an ipad and Tidal.

If it makes a difference I am listening with a pair of Focal Clears.

Thanks for any input.

 

[EarFatigue]

Good evening everyone.

I got a stellar deal on a Focal Arche a few weeks ago that I was not able to pass on but I have a nagging feeling that I should have purchased the RME ADI 2 DAC FS.

I can not find any comparisons between the two and wanted to know if anyone has had the opportunity to A/B them that can give me some notes on differences to sway me one direction or another.

I like the sound of the Arche as well as the analogue inputs that the ADI doesn’t have but the other options that the RME ADI 2 give are very compelling. I listen through USB from an ipad and Tidal.

If it makes a difference I am listening with a pair of Focal Clears.

Thanks for any input.

I'd give the Arche some additional listening time. Also, it does need to be warmed up to sound it's best. A direct comparison between the Arche and the RME would be interesting. I don't think you will regret the Arche purchase considering you got such a good deal. It will be interesting to see if the rumors are true that they are discontinuing it...and what the impact will be on any hope of getting a functional update. I'm fortunate that mine has worked flawlessly since day 1.

 

[YegDude]

I'd give the Arche some additional listening time. Also, it does need to be warmed up to sound it's best. A direct comparison between the Arche and the RME would be interesting. I don't think you will regret the Arche purchase considering you got such a good deal. It will be interesting to see if the rumors are true that they are discontinuing it...and what the impact will be on any hope of getting a functional update. I'm fortunate that mine has worked flawlessly since day 1.

When I picked up my unit the deal was because it is being discontinued. No word on further support for the product though.

I also head that Naim has a replacement for it. A dedicated headphone streamer, with no inputs though other than streaming content.

 

[Gadget67]

If, in fact, the Arche is being discontinued Focal is really going to receive plenty of negative feedback from disgruntled purchasers. There are ongoing issues concerning USB connectivity and it’s likely there won’t be a software update if it’s being discontinued. To be fair, I did my due diligence when making the purchase and “adjusted” to the quirks. I was using it with my Sony WM1Z via USB and I’m currently using it via Toslink with Audirvana because it just WILL NOT work with Audirvana using USB and that is infuriating. If, by chance, anyone here has gotten it to work with USB from Audirvana please tell me how you accomplished that! I’ve torn the rest of my hair out trying to figure it out. Again, to be fair, it is fantastic with my Utopia and Stellia headphone using Toslink and I’m porting it through an SPL Phonitor 2 amp allowing me to use a remote.

I’m considering other alternatives (Chord DAVE, Holo May, Bartok) but honestly the Arche via Toslink sounds really good! Basically, I’m just ticked off that Focal would abandon users like that if the rumors are true. Perhaps @FocalOfficial (Marine) can shed some light on this. She (Marine) has been helpful in the past. It might be useful to PM her but If there hasn’t been an “official” announcement from Focal I wouldn’t want to put her on the spot. I guess it’s wait and see at this point...

 

[ASIN]

The Arche sounds better than most headphone amps twice its price; that said it has flaws. We have been told that @FocalOfficial are aware of the problems and are working on a fix. While I am sure they already know whatever is coming next, that is not a sign they will abandon the Arche. Mine sounds so good I ended up upgrading my source from the Melco N1A/2 to the Melco N1Z/2EX-S40, that has got me considering other upgrades so I think I need to check into the audioholics thread for a few minutes.