[psy472]

@DisalvoA992 asked about the working principle of two Mentor units in dual mono mode. Here is an explanation by Flux Lab.

The triangle indicates one channel of the amplifier. Each channel has an individual power supply and power transformer.

That above is the signal diagram right?

But By definition:

The single and dual Mono are all balanced. It Not having an SE connection doesn’t make it unbalanced.

See the inside and how they are wired? 2 separate power supplies and pathway. How is that unbalanced?

 

[Ichos]

That above is the signal diagram right?

But By definition:

The single and dual Mono are all balanced. It Not having an SE connection doesn’t make it unbalanced.

See the inside and how they are wired? 2 separate power supplies and pathway. How is that unbalanced?

There are two channels. Left and right. No L+ L- R+ R-.

 

[Ceora]

On the Flux site, product description page, it says the power supply is dual mono. They don't mention "fully balanced mode" until further down on the page under Mono Input and Synch Module, talking about how the stack of two Mentors work.

 

[Ichos]

yes exactly, that's my goal to pick what best suits. But because I lack here some knowledge, I'm not fully confident that I won't lose something with Mentor.


Thanks, that helped. Just one more thing: What is then MJ3 in the SE mode (this purest Class A performance as they call it) - still fully balanced SE?

I have a true balanced DAC and I plan to use a balanced XLR connector on the headphones, and want to connect dac and headamp with balanced XLR cables. One would expect for best performance to have true balanced also headamp in between. Single mentor is dual mono, but not truly balanced.

Whether I'm obsessive with keeping that signal, I don't know , never had to solve such thing before. But on the other hand, it seems to me only logical to insist on preserving that balanced signal..

eeh and I was already decided to order the Mentor.. Now I'm back in the analysis phase ... After all this self-brain-demolishing torture I will definitely need some "mentoring".. so Mentor seems to be still more relevant..

Honestly it doesn't matter. You can only judge by the sound that comes from your headphones.

 

[Erick Muller]

Thanks, that helped. Just one more thing: What is then MJ3 in the SE mode (this purest Class A performance as they call it) - still fully balanced SE?

This is honestly technical stuff about the class-A mode that MJ3 it's operating at, it does not have anything to do with the headphone outputs or if this is a single ended or balanced amplifier, which the MJ3 is a fully balanced design btw, it's just an unfortunate coincidence in technical terminology that has cause a lot of confusion.

 

[Erick Muller]

eeh and I was already decided to order the Mentor.. Now I'm back in the analysis phase ... After all this self-brain-demolishing torture I will definitely need some "mentoring".. so Mentor seems to be still more relevant..

The question is what kind of headphones are you planning to power with this amp?. Basically people are going for the Flux Labs Mentor right now because it has more juice than the MJ3 to drive really demanding cans like ModHouse Tungsten, but if you have relatively low impedance and efficient cans, MJ3 it's going to be a perfect fit for you, if you have high impedance and inefficient/hard to drive cans or you're planning on getting this kind of cans in the future, Mentor might be a better fit.

For me the main difference it's power and the fact that Mentor doesn't have pre-outs and also the option of getting a second mentor in the future and running them on dual mono mode in order to enslave the rest of the audiophile world with that much power.... but it depends what kind of system you're running right now.

 

[nighthink]

This is honestly technical stuff about the class-A mode that MJ3 it's operating at, it does not have anything to do with the headphone outputs or if this is a single ended or balanced amplifier, which the MJ3 is a fully balanced design btw, it's just an unfortunate coincidence in technical terminology that has cause a lot of confusion.

The main takeaway for me is that MJ3 keeps the balanced input intact all the way down to the output no matter what. Whereas Mentor accepts balanced input, but transforms the L+ L- R+ R- to just R and L? And then it will serve it via balanced output, but internally unbalanced dual mono? Isn't that kind of degrading the sound? I'd like to be as technically relevant as possible but at least try to explain what I mean.

It's kind of surprising that a unit that has balanced inputs and balanced output is in fact not truly balanced inside.. Or it is confusing at least. Whatever I have read about sound comparing balanced and unbalanced output, it always resulted in better sound for balanced. It looks like a tough compromise now giving up on the balanced aspect of the amplifier. Especially if it gets such high marks as Mentor does.

The question is what kind of headphones are you planning to power with this amp?

HE1000SE and as dac pontus II. So no need for such an amount of power at all right now. But frankly, I was sold to Mentor mainly by Ichos's review. It just fits my style. Also, the fact I live just left from Ukraine and if comparable performance, why not support those guys and be a bit more environmentally friendly while still getting top quality product.. Besides that, MJ3 is still not available. And who knows if I will not buy in 5 years from now Tungsten or anything similar.. Also MJ3 and Mentor cost exactly the same money here. So I like MJ3, but based on that review I'm confident I would like also Mentor. Mentor just looked more future-proof, more neutral to accept anything coming down the line.

But now here is that unbalanced thing..

 

[psy472]

The main takeaway for me is that MJ3 keeps the balanced input intact all the way down to the output no matter what. Whereas Mentor accepts balanced input, but transforms the L+ L- R+ R- to just R and L? And then it will serve it via balanced output, but internally unbalanced dual mono? Isn't that kind of degrading the sound? I'd like to be as technically relevant as possible but at least try to explain what I mean.

It's kind of surprising that a unit that has balanced inputs and balanced output is in fact not truly balanced inside.. Or it is confusing at least. Whatever I have read about sound comparing balanced and unbalanced output, it always resulted in better sound for balanced. It looks like a tough compromise now giving up on the balanced aspect of the amplifier. Especially if it gets such high marks as Mentor does.


HE1000SE and as dac pontus II. So no need for such an amount of power at all right now. But frankly, I was sold to Mentor mainly by Ichos's review. It just fits my style. Also, the fact I live just left from Ukraine and if comparable performance, why not support those guys and be a bit more environmentally friendly while still getting top quality product.. Besides that, MJ3 is still not available. And who knows if I will not buy in 5 years from now Tungsten or anything similar.. Also MJ3 and Mentor cost exactly the same money here. So I like MJ3, but based on that review I'm confident I would like also Mentor. Mentor just looked more future-proof, more neutral to accept anything coming down the line.

But now here is that unbalanced thing..

I’m confused too. Because this conclusion was based on a lack of terminology on the website description and a separate Q&A diagram from a different topic. So no one actually asked the manufacturer at all.

 

[nighthink]

Honestly it doesn't matter. You can only judge by the sound that comes from your headphones.

Agree. But I can only buy one, and no option to test them before anywhere. Also don't want to go that way to buy and sell or return, it's just too much of useless stress .

Also maybe it really does not matter, balanced or unbalanced, and it's just technical implementation that does not tell anything about how it sounds. Maybe Mentor's purpose is to live in the stack, then all makes sense. Good thing with Mentor is that you can upgrade it to balanced by buying another Mentor , which other headamp can say this.

 

[Ichos]

Don't know about the MJ3 or dual Mentors but my single Mentor sounds absolutely fantastic!!

 

[Erick Muller]

The main takeaway for me is that MJ3 keeps the balanced input intact all the way down to the output no matter what. Whereas Mentor accepts balanced input, but transforms the L+ L- R+ R- to just R and L? And then it will serve it via balanced output, but internally unbalanced dual mono? Isn't that kind of degrading the sound? I'd like to be as technically relevant as possible but at least try to explain what I mean.

It's kind of surprising that a unit that has balanced inputs and balanced output is in fact not truly balanced inside.. Or it is confusing at least. Whatever I have read about sound comparing balanced and unbalanced output, it always resulted in better sound for balanced. It looks like a tough compromise now giving up on the balanced aspect of the amplifier. Especially if it gets such high marks as Mentor does.


HE1000SE and as dac pontus II. So no need for such an amount of power at all right now. But frankly, I was sold to Mentor mainly by Ichos's review. It just fits my style. Also, the fact I live just left from Ukraine and if comparable performance, why not support those guys and be a bit more environmentally friendly while still getting top quality product.. Besides that, MJ3 is still not available. And who knows if I will not buy in 5 years from now Tungsten or anything similar.. Also MJ3 and Mentor cost exactly the same money here. So I like MJ3, but based on that review I'm confident I would like also Mentor. Mentor just looked more future-proof, more neutral to accept anything coming down the line.

But now here is that unbalanced thing..

I wouldn't worry to much about the balanced and single ended thing about the Mentor, it seems to be a well thought desing with the possibility to upgraded to the mono version which that would give you fully balanced if that matter to you, the only things is that you're gonna need to hunt for special cables for that if you ever plan to have the full on, fully upgraded mentor stack.

The good thing about the mentor is that even in the stereo/single mentor version, you'll have plenty of power to drive any headphone and with your HEKSE it's going to be no problem, if you only have easy/not very demanding to drive headphones, either MJ3 or Mentor are gonna be excellent picks in either case. At that point comes to whatever you can get your hands on more easily, personal preference and convenience.

 

[Slackaveli]

Don't know about the MJ3 or dual Mentors but my single Mentor sounds absolutely fantastic!!

You see what you started lol.

Seriously, guys, dual-mono is balanced. It's like Eric said- two diverging meanings of the word balanced. SE doesnt been "unbalanced" like the language might suggest. It's much adieu about nothing.

Look at the Flux- it's called "Mono Balanced" on the output. The left and right channels will still be in stereo, and the POWER is there. The reason to run fully balanced is MORE POWER , not 'better sound quality".

Hope this helps. Worry not about the Mentor's quality. The only worry I have at all is I hope they get to exist for years and years and not end up victimized by the aggressor nation...

 

[nighthink]

As I was drilling the way to hell, I found quite good article, only to realize it was written by WaveTheory:
https://forum.hifiguides.com/t/is-balanced-better-pros-cons-of-balanced-vs-single-ended/21905

To sum it up, balanced mostly matters between DAC and AMP. To the headphones, it does not really matter if the signal goes SE or balanced.. So based on that it should be no problem that Mentor gives to the output only unbalanced SE signal. More importantly it would matter how good it accepts that balanced signal from dac - assuming I will want to use my pontus II in balanced mode, because otherwise, I would only use half of my DAC.

It is far worse to listen to a balanced amplifier from the unbalanced SE connector (because here conversion from balanced to SE must be made by the amp). On the other hand, if unbalanced amp has a balanced output only for convenience, nothing special happens to the headphones in the end.

And balanced inside an amp shall mostly eliminate the background noise, that's main purpose.. Mentor has no problem with black background, so no issue here either..

I think in the end all is good with Mentor.

 

[feverfive]

You see what you started lol.

Seriously, guys, dual-mono is balanced. It's like Eric said- two diverging meanings of the word balanced. SE doesnt been "unbalanced" like the language might suggest. It's much adieu about nothing.

Look at the Flux- it's called "Mono Balanced" on the output. The left and right channels will still be in stereo, and the POWER is there. The reason to run fully balanced is MORE POWER , not 'better sound quality".

Hope this helps. Worry not about the Mentor's quality. The only worry I have at all is I hope they get to exist for years and years and not end up victimized by the aggressor nation...

How much out-of-pocket was your order (inclusive of PayPal & bank fees, for currency conversion), if you don't mind sharing?

 

[nighthink]

Seriously, guys, dual-mono is balanced.

Based on what I just learned, this is not true. You can have dual mono balanced OR unbalanced.. and also main purpose of balanced is not so much power but lower noise.

but anyway, does not really matter at all in the end.. It was nice to learn again something new .