[McCol]

No matter what source you have. Even on tube amp, Flares Pro is not warm sounding.

Everybody hears things differently but for me I think the Flare range do have a wee tilt towards the warm side with their bass response.

For me the Etymotic Er4 represent flat nuetral and the Flare is not anything like that.

 

[LuckyNat]

No matter what source you have. Even on tube amp, Flares Pro is not warm sounding.

Id agree in terms of my personal hearing but also it can depend on people's own ear & ear canal response, what they're used to and also how they describe "warm" One person's "warm" could be another person's "natural". I've listened to hifi that blasted my ears with treble whist the guy showing it off was saying how great and natural it sounded (think it was top line Monitor Audio speakers, Primare amps and CD player and a 90's top of the line Meridian preamp) . Depends on the individual.

The rest of the Flares: Pro 2, Gold and 2HD I'd say are rich and smooth but I'd not say they were warm. I personally think a lot of high-end iems are bright and that is a modern taste on response. If people are used to and enjoy that, they'll probably say that Flare Audio stuff is "warm". We all have our own understanding of these words..

 

[awayeah]

I was suggesting that someone who had bothered to send back 2 already on the basis of small flaws, and was now facing their 4th return was being pedantic - which you have just accepted that you are sometimes. So we agree.

But everybody has to weigh up the energy and personal, emotion response of disappointment and allowing that to grow to a point of feeling one needs to send it back etc etc ... and I'm suggesting it's not worth the effort. One can point out the flaws so the manufacturer is aware of the faults in production but one doesn't have to follow through with the return ... unless they can't live with the flaw. It's a personal choice...).

I don't think you know how the process works, friend. It's not so hard to return item to Flare Audio if it's their fault. If I had to send them anything myself I wouldn't bother.
They arrange a collection and all I had to do is put a sticker on the box. That's why I've made 2 returns. And both returns was one pickup (they sent me 2 pairs, then made a collection for both and then they send third pair).
In the end it didn't take a lot of effort from my part and it was all they suggestions. That's why I was pointing that out.
While it didn't take a lot of my effort it was a bit time consuming. And in the end they still sent me a flaw pair... So much time and effort on their side and still they couldn't deliver.

I understand that manufacturing process can be flawed in some what many will consider unimportant parts. But if 4 people including director are claiming that they personally inspected my third and last delivery -both making, checking and packing the item to meet my needs... And they didn't notice a scratch and a stain? It was the reason they made the replacements! Something's not right here

 

[LuckyNat]

Just in case there's any doubt..

This is my original Pro, and I can see there's plenty of scope for polishing the enclosure exit. There are some fine lines on the angled exit part, and some in the hole itself, though its much smoother. There's a mounting plastic/rubber insert or collar in front of the driver, butting up to the exit hole.

Looking at the driver, I'm not actually convinced its open at all at the rear, so don't quite get the front/rear balancing part that Flare claim, but whatever.

It would be quite easy to change the cable on it though if it becomes broken..

I'd be fascinated to see what the 2HD looks like inside by comparison. Anyone want to take one apart for us?!

I would like to know what it would sound like without that metal grill.. I think it's only there because it's an OEM driver. Also without that plastic/rubber insert.

 

[barondla]

I would like to know what it would sound like without that metal grill.. I think it's only there because it's an OEM driver. Also without that plastic/rubber insert.

Thought Davies mentioned long ago that the metal grill was part of the pressure equalization system? Wasn't it supposed to add enough resistance to balance the driver's basket resistance to the back wave?

 

[LuckyNat]

I don't remember seeing that myself but it might have been said to someone. However, it looks like a standard protection part for an OEM driver and whilst they may take it into acount when modelling I doubt it was designed to be there by them for sonic reasons. Might get brighter if it's removed. Could of course be taken into account by the OEM driver manufacturer though in terms of FR response, but FR response isn't everything - might impede impulse response too, speed of movement? Might get more detail without it, but then have to redesign housing to flatten FR response... I don't know, just speculating. It instinctively feels wrong to me to try to control any driver response or behaviour by placing objects infront of it. I would have thought it could introduce distortions from inhibiting air flow through the small holes, at certain frequencies, cause back-pressures and therefore impede the movement of the diapragm..

 

[mochill]

Will be getting the r2 titanium soon

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

I would like to know what it would sound like without that metal grill.. I think it's only there because it's an OEM driver. Also without that plastic/rubber insert.

The rubber insert is used to ensure the front of the driver is damped against the front of the enclosure and the same around the edge. So I really don’t think that can be eliminated.

The front grill maybe could be removed. I did have a decent look at that, and tried to see if I could tease it off, but without success. If I knew more about the construction of the driver I think I could make a better assessment of whether it can be removed.

 

[Jonathan Dunham]

Thought Davies mentioned long ago that the metal grill was part of the pressure equalization system? Wasn't it supposed to add enough resistance to balance the driver's basket resistance to the back wave?

I can’t see given the size of the holes in the grill that it would affect the back wave balance at all. I do instinctively object to the grill being there though, as there must be some back reflections at certain frequencies being caused. There’s a tiny amount of cone movement though so those are only likely to effect the higher end.

My guess is that Flare have put the grill there to prevent dirt getting into the driver. But given its so easy to take apart I’d definitely chance it by taking it off.

 

[LuckyNat]

The rubber/plastic insert I meant, was the one at the rear of the driver that seems to block the rear of the driver. I might have misunderstood your description though..

The grill on the Flares driver is the same style as the one on the original R2s (obviously slightly larger). They will have used a third party, readily available driver for those R2s (it was only launched on kickstarter, nothing on a scale that would justify the cost of a specially-made or modified driver ). The same grill implies the same manufacturer of the larger driver for the Flares range and that this comes as standard with the same kind of grill. I'd guess that the original manufacturer puts it there for protection reasons too, not sonic reasons. Probably a fairly delicate diapragm.

 

[barondla]

My understanding was a standard dynamic driver has more resistance at the rear than the front. This is because of the driver basket and magnet blocking the rear firing sound. It is difficult to reduce the extra back pressure because the driver basket and magnet are needed. So resistance is added to the front via grill and their nozzle. The grill may be the same because all the Flare drivers are the same 5.5mm size and would likely have similar size basket and magnet.

 

[awayeah]

Everybody hears things differently but for me I think the Flare range do have a wee tilt towards the warm side with their bass response.

For me the Etymotic Er4 represent flat nuetral and the Flare is not anything like that.

Which Flare?

Etymotic is flat but I was talking more about colourization. Flares Pro and the new line have much stronger bass than ER4, that't obvious - and that's true for almost every IEM on the market.

The old series tilt towards warm side but the new one does not. Neutral and colorless doesn't mean that 2 IEMs will sound the same - especially one that's armature and one that's dynamic.
Etymotic has wide soundstage but with only little depth, Flares Pro is more 3 dimensional, plus the much different bass response and the characteristic armature sound - they are far apart.

Flares Pro might be tilting toward warm like you've said but on Comply foams. When use with their audiophile foams, there's no warmness. Unless you identify warm with strong bass... But still it's not that kind of bass. To get warm sound they would have to be more mid-bass focussed with softer presentation.

 

[McCol]

Which Flare?

Etymotic is flat but I was talking more about colourization. Flares Pro and the new line have much stronger bass than ER4, that't obvious - and that's true for almost every IEM on the market.

The old series tilt towards warm side but the new one does not. Neutral and colorless doesn't mean that 2 IEMs will sound the same - especially one that's armature and one that's dynamic.
Etymotic has wide soundstage but with only little depth, Flares Pro is more 3 dimensional, plus the much different bass response and the characteristic armature sound - they are far apart.

Flares Pro might be tilting toward warm like you've said but on Comply foams. When use with their audiophile foams, there's no warmness. Unless you identify warm with strong bass... But still it's not that kind of bass. To get warm sound they would have to be more mid-bass focussed with softer presentation.

I suppose it's how one defines a warm sound.

The new Flare to me has a warm sound due to its bass presentation and smooth mids, for me this is warm, but for listening that is a positive, it's not a critiscm, just the way I hear it.
If I compare it to my RHA CL2 which has a sharp edge in the treble along with smooth mids and a real detailed bass then again the Flare presents as warm but that is more because of the sharp detail of the CL2.

The new Flare is an outstanding earphone that easily outperforms any earphone I've used in a similar and in many cases higher price range.

 

[awayeah]

@McCol You have to remember that there is also cold Not everything is warm or neutral ...
The EX1000 which is widely regarded as a bit on the colder side is actually a bit warmer sounding than Flares Pro.
So it's all relative.

 

[McCol]

@McCol You have to remember that there is also cold Not everything is warm or neutral ...
The EX1000 which is widely regarded as a bit on the colder side is actually a bit warmer sounding than Flares Pro.
So it's all relative.

For sure, 100% agree.

That's both the beauty and frustration with this hobby. It really is an individual type of preference when it comes to how we hear things, style of music and source alongside numerous other factors can affect our opinion on the sound presentation of an earphone.
Totally agree on the EX1000 as well!