[jojoarmani]

i had this debate with a friend a few years back. i swore i could hear a difference in my favorite album in FLAC and WAV. I finally lost the argument, not because i admitted the results i heard were wrong, but because for lack of hard drive room and FLACed all my files.

 

[AudioPhewl]

Not going to get involved in all this other than this post.

I have a Stax SRS-4040II rig, and FLAC/WAV/Monkeys/etc are all identical on it.

~Phewl.

 

[Abubizarre]

Quote:

Originally Posted by badmonkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif It will if he does the manual comparison as above. This would have crashed your Foobar too. Anyway, a conflict or bug with different decoders and filters that causes a crash is very different to the magical SQ difference reports that plague this place. It will either work, or not. If it works, then the output is known to be constant (or at the very least can be tested). As above. Wait for his response.

I still have a stinking cold - my Eustacian tubes all blocked and my ears are far from "golden". When I can hear again - I will do the ABX with upsampling hopefully - pls be patient a bit.

 

[Zorlac]

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Creative Labs X-Fi cards bit perfect output in audio creation mode only works with wav files. Guess that is another reason to rip to wav if you are striving for bit perfect. *shrug*

Quote:

Bit-Matched playback is only applicable to WAV files with the following specifications: - stereo format - PCM audio data - 16-bits and above (maximum 32-bits with 24-bits resolution) - 44.1, 48 or 96 kHz

Creative Worldwide Support

 

[nick_charles]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlac /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not sure if this was mentioned, but Creative Labs X-Fi cards bit perfect output in audio creation mode only works with wav files. Guess that is another reason to rip to wav if you are striving for bit perfect. *shrug*

AFAIK a music application such as FooBar reading a FLAC file converts it to wav before passing it to the sound card.

 

[b0dhi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zorlac /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not sure if this was mentioned, but Creative Labs X-Fi cards bit perfect output in audio creation mode only works with wav files. Guess that is another reason to rip to wav if you are striving for bit perfect. *shrug* Creative Worldwide Support

By "WAV files", I think they mean an uncompressed audio stream. The reason I presume they say that is because you can't play an MP3 and then compare the bitstream to the MP3 because the decompressed stream is different, thus, not "bit matched". A soundcard has no idea what file format the audio data is coming from (except on some older cards with onboard MP3 decoders).

 

[kimura]

I cant hear any different between these two form.

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimura /img/forum/go_quote.gif I cant hear any different between these two form.

Good, because you shouldn't.

 

[jojoarmani]

Although quality wise hearing, FLAC and WAV are the same, because FLAC is a good compressor. However, shouldn't there be a difference in texture (layering or richness) of a song if it's playing at 1000kbps in FLAC and 1400 in WAV? it seems 1400 would sound fuller, or is it beyond the human ear to hear difference?

 

[TheMarchingMule]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojoarmani /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although quality wise hearing, FLAC and WAV are the same, because FLAC is a good compressor. However, shouldn't there be a difference in texture (layering or richness) of a song if it's playing at 1000kbps in FLAC and 1400 in WAV? it seems 1400 would sound fuller, or is it beyond the human ear to hear difference?

I had that same misconception early on, but again, it's how the encoder compresses it, that's all.

 

[japc]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jojoarmani /img/forum/go_quote.gif Although quality wise hearing, FLAC and WAV are the same, because FLAC is a good compressor.

Being a good compressor means you compress the data more or take less time for the same compression. It doesn't mean you loose data so yes, they should be the same.

Use the analogy with an important spreadsheet and using rar or zip or gzip. Would any of them discard data? Would you use them if they did?

 

[krmathis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kimura /img/forum/go_quote.gif I cant hear any different between these two form.

Like most of us...
Which is to be expected, since they contain the exact same audio data.

 

[Quaddy]

@OP

never have the misconception that you can freely air your own beliefs on this board, as the placebo mob will feel your collar.

all you need to know is you can hear a difference. then there is a difference.

hell, i remember getting flack for hearing differences betwixt and between flac compression levels.

blasphemy was shouted, banish 'it' from the village...

in my padded cell near the edge of the forest clearing, past the village boundary, i once hypothesized that flac, to my dillusional ears was warmer sounding but yet held a narrower field of sound, whereas wav was more clinical sounding but fuller in its staging. a dicotomy!!

draw what you will from those disgraceful suppositions.

i am off to bob a witch or three...

 

[gyrodec]

Quaddy - If only it were that simple. If you believe you hear a difference then yes indeed you believe you here a difference. This does NOT mean you actually heard one or that there is one. The psychology of perception is far more complex and shifting than that. Nothing I can see/hear/taste/feel can I claim is real or even as I perceive it. Our senses are too easy to fool. On top of that our brains can supply the impression of differences that are completely indistinguishable from the real thing. I frequently hear the phone ring when I'm in the shower because the way my mind processes the noise of the shower combined with my paranoia about missing a call make me hear the phone. It sounds exactly the same as my real phone - but it never happened.

Lets face it, even I think therefore I am is a dodgy starting point, and everything from there is a mere rumor handed to you by your brain. It is just wrong to claim I hear a difference so there is one. I hear something so it might be real is all we can say.

Thinking you can trust your ears is the falacy at the root of all audiophile paranoia - including mine.

 

[Agnostic]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quaddy /img/forum/go_quote.gif @OP never have the misconception that you can freely air your own beliefs on this board, as the placebo mob will feel your collar. all you need to know is you can hear a difference. then there is a difference. hell, i remember getting flack for hearing differences betwixt and between flac compression levels. blasphemy was shouted, banish 'it' from the village... in my padded cell near the edge of the forest clearing, past the village boundary, i once hypothesized that flac, to my dillusional ears was warmer sounding but yet held a narrower field of sound, whereas wav was more clinical sounding but fuller in its staging. a dicotomy!! draw what you will from those disgraceful suppositions. i am off to bob a witch or three...

I guess that explains why you're using Valhalla cables...
If I could hear a difference between Flac and Wave I would also be buying those.