FLAC the Best?
Aug 7, 2006 at 6:05 PM Post #121 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by Altoids
Wow, this is still on. I don't understand what's so difficult to understand about all this. Regarding lossless archiving, why bother being lazy? ....


Some people have other priorities. That doesn't make them lazy.
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Aug 7, 2006 at 11:57 PM Post #122 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by wanderman
I think they should talk to the lossy codec's development team so they can fix whatever they are hearing.


My point is that I've never encountered a human being that could hear the difference between a well-encoded lossy file and a lossless file on equipment that lossy files are built for: mp3 players. I'm saying the argument between the two camps is silly because lossy fills the niche it's built for very well, it only poses a problem when people over-extend its usefulness.

And to Sparky, what other priorities?
 
Aug 8, 2006 at 3:09 AM Post #123 of 131
wow, it's been a long time since I've posted on here hehe, and this thread just caught my eye....some interesting arguments back and forth, and since it's already on the verge of a car wreck I figured I'd toss my two cents in too. :wink:

I see a couple different arguments going on that seem to have been criss-crossed, so I'll address my comments in the way I perceive the arguments.

1. FLAC vs Wavpack: to-may-to / to-mah-to. They both appear to have their strengths and their weaknesses. I have over 1,000 CDs and I have been too lazy to dig up the space to archive them, let alone spend the time doing so. I am quite confident that I'll probably rip to FLAC, and even then I'd be too lazy to convert to wavpack. Just me though, there are plenty of people with smaller collections and more time, and if you need the extra 7 gigs then more power to you!

2. Lossy vs Lossless: There are a couple intermixed arguments here, first that you can't audibly tell the difference between high-bitrate lossy and lossless, this then morphed into the restriction of being on a portable/mobile device (I'll toss car into the equation since it still fits). I have not done an abx test, but I'm confident that more the vast majority of people this would be true, that on any MP3 player etc, comparing the two with relatively standard headphones (no STAX etc) you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference.

This is where my opinion starts to branch, a lot of people are talking about wavpack in regards to portable players, rockbox, straight computers etc, and likewise with playing FLAC on the player itself.

Personally, my intent once I rip my collection, is that the FLAC will be the archive of all the audio. From there, using a slimdevice to stream the audio (ralphp, the new transporter http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html would probably even be up to snuff for you :wink: ) In this situation, FLAC is more compatible, and I am no longer limiting myself to portable audio, but can integrate that audio into my home listening system, where differences between lossy and lossless I would imagine would be come more pronounced.

Now, I know, for those of you that don't think there would be an audible difference even in that scenario, the added benefit is that I can transcode freely without a loss in quality. If I initially rip to OGG or MP3 at a high bitrate, and someone creates an uber-algorithm for shrinking files, then I can't transcode without losing quality.

For me personally, it's about retaining that exact copy, but adding the benefit of portability (transcoding), integration into a network/home audio setup without having 5x 300 Disc CD Changers, and having all of the music in one place.

I'm sure some of you may disagree on some points, but that will be based on your own situations or requirements. No one is ever stupid or wrong for having different requirements or needs, they're just different.
 
Aug 8, 2006 at 5:48 AM Post #124 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg
I'm sure some of you may disagree on some points, but that will be based on your own situations or requirements. No one is ever stupid or wrong for having different requirements or needs, they're just different.


I've made some decisions that are different than the decisions you have made. But everything you said is perfectly reasonable, sensible and fair.
 
Aug 8, 2006 at 12:24 PM Post #125 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg
Personally, my intent once I rip my collection, is that the FLAC will be the archive of all the audio. From there, using a slimdevice to stream the audio (ralphp, the new transporter http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html would probably even be up to snuff for you :wink: ) In this situation, FLAC is more compatible, and I am no longer limiting myself to portable audio, but can integrate that audio into my home listening system, where differences between lossy and lossless I would imagine would be come more pronounced.


Thanks for the link to Slim Devices. I'll look into it although with two kids in college this year I doubt that I'll be adding one to my system any time soon
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I also agree with you, Russdog and Altoids: different strokes for different folks.
 
Aug 10, 2006 at 5:54 AM Post #127 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by Edvard_Grieg
Personally, my intent once I rip my collection, is that the FLAC will be the archive of all the audio. From there, using a slimdevice to stream the audio (ralphp, the new transporter http://www.slimdevices.com/pi_transporter.html would probably even be up to snuff for you :wink: ) In this situation, FLAC is more compatible, and I am no longer limiting myself to portable audio, but can integrate that audio into my home listening system, where differences between lossy and lossless I would imagine would be come more pronounced.

.



I am waiting for 2 black Transporters myself and am reripping my entire collection in FLAC for that purpose. I have found it difficult to distinguish between MP3 and WAV on heaphones, however in my speakers rigs, I find that soundstage and imaging is not quite the same when I use 320 mp3s . Everything sounds a bit flat. Also, if I upsample mp3s, differences become much more evident.
 
Aug 10, 2006 at 7:34 AM Post #128 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleestack
I am waiting for 2 black Transporters myself and am reripping my entire collection in FLAC for that purpose. I have found it difficult to disntiguish between MP3 and WAV on heaphones, however in my speakers rigs, I find that soundstage and imaging is not quite the same when I use 320 mp3s . Everything sounds a bit flat. Also, if I upsample mp3s, differencesbecome much more evident.


I think that is the main reason why most people tend to have a hard time hearing the differences between lossless and mp3. I think people tend focus on whether or not they detect any compression artifacts and not the small stuff such as imaging, detail, and soundstaging.
 
Aug 10, 2006 at 12:25 PM Post #129 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by PsychoZX
I think that is the main reason why most people tend to have a hard time hearing the differences between lossless and mp3. I think people tend focus on whether or not they detect any compression artifacts and not the small stuff such as imaging, detail, and soundstaging.


These were almost exactly my words way back in post #57 on 8/4/06:

Quote:

One can hear the difference between a compressed file and the original - it's in the fine details and the presence, as the compressed version will always sound just a little lifeless and flat.


By "compressed" I meant lossy compressed file, since a flac, or other type of lossless compressed file is really just an exact copy of the original file.

Anyway, it's good to see that there are some other people around here who agree with me.
 
Aug 11, 2006 at 1:43 AM Post #130 of 131
Flatness is a distinguishing characteristic; if it's so notable presumably you should be able to ABX it with foobar.
 
Aug 11, 2006 at 2:41 AM Post #131 of 131
Quote:

Originally Posted by ralphp@optonline
These were almost exactly my words way back in post #57 on 8/4/06:


Sorry I didn't read the whole thread.
 

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