Finding a DAC for the Cavalli Liquid Carbon. Only Four Months to Go.

[Luckbad]

 
Man, I wish my budget considered a $500+ gap "a bit."

 
Brand new Emotiva DC-1 vs. used Reference 5 (not .32) isn't a $500 gap.

 

[deadbeef]

Curious if anyone has tried both the Uberfrost and Audio-gd's NFB-3 and can offer some comparisons.  Alternatively, is it worth the extra $300 to just go for the DAC-19 and call it a day...?

 

[Stillhart]

  Curious if anyone has tried both the Uberfrost and Audio-gd's NFB-3 and can offer some comparisons.  Alternatively, is it worth the extra $300 to just go for the DAC-19 and call it a day...?

 
NFB-3DAC is a Sabre DAC and it's their SE version.  If you want the AGD Sabre DAC, I'd definitely recommend stepping up to the NFB-1S, which is a limited run specially priced version of the NFB-1DAC.  It's only $25 more than the NFB-3DAC.
 
The NFB-1 is the same DAC as my NFB-28. I'd call it the best Sabre implementation I've yet heard.  Yes, the GO SE has a lower noise floor and more detail, but the AGD implementation is a lot smoother and easier to listen to.
 
So if you're into the Sabre sound, I'd say go for the NFB-1.  If you want your music to sound like it was actually meant to sound, I'd recommend the DAC-19.

 

[Jozurr]

Curious if anyone has tried both the Uberfrost and Audio-gd's NFB-3 and can offer some comparisons.  Alternatively, is it worth the extra $300 to just go for the DAC-19 and call it a day...?

The DAC-19 is where the magic is at. Once you go R2R youll never go back. Would I pay $300 more versus any other DS dac to get the DAC-19? any given day. I went from an oppo ha-1 to the DAC-19 and that was a great decision.

 

[atsq17]

It doesn't mean all D-S dacs sound a certain way. 
 
From what I heard from Matrix X-Sabre owners, it doesn't sound "digital" or "sabre-like". 
 
I have a Pulse XFi and Infinity and they sound smooth and detailed, maybe even a tiny bit warm. 
 
I also have a NFB-1 and that sounds good too in a more neutral way. Sounds completely different from the XFi with different pros and cons. I like the Infinity best from that lot. 
 
I've also owned the DAC-19 DSP before too (not the latest super version) and that was again fantastic in a different way. 
 
I like the DAC-19 for some applications and prefer the Infinity for others. Would be happy with either. In terms of technical ability, the Infinity is the best I've experienced. 
 
I guess come to think of it, if something is as good as the current DAC-19 in the size and price of the LC. I'd probably get one. Would still prefer balanced. 

 

[deadbeef]

   
NFB-3DAC is a Sabre DAC and it's their SE version.  If you want the AGD Sabre DAC, I'd definitely recommend stepping up to the NFB-1S, which is a limited run specially priced version of the NFB-1DAC.  It's only $25 more than the NFB-3DAC.
 
The NFB-1 is the same DAC as my NFB-28. I'd call it the best Sabre implementation I've yet heard.  Yes, the GO SE has a lower noise floor and more detail, but the AGD implementation is a lot smoother and easier to listen to.
 
So if you're into the Sabre sound, I'd say go for the NFB-1.  If you want your music to sound like it was actually meant to sound, I'd recommend the DAC-19.

I think I'm going to have to email Audio-GD and make sure they still have some DAC-19 in stock

 Anyone have/know the difference of the upgraded USB module (combo384)?

 

[Stillhart]

  I think I'm going to have to email Audio-GD and make sure they still have some DAC-19 in stock

 Anyone have/know the difference of the upgraded USB module (combo384)?

 
That was introduced after I got mine and I didn't feel like the upgrade was worth bothering with.  If it had been offered at the time, I'd have gotten it.  IMO, I tend to get all the little upgrades that Kingwa offers since they're not too expensive and they help resale value.

 

[x RELIC x]

The DAC-19 is a great DAC. I feel that the majority of owners who haven't heard an good R-2R implementation (like the DAC-19) really don't know any different and so the almighty air and 'neutrality' is used as a term for quality instead of what the DAC-19 does best, a natural, realistic reproduction of music in comparison.

It's too bad because there are a whole bunch of new 'audiophiles' who have no clue how good it can be (not bringing vinyl in the mix here). Since I picked up the 10th Anv edition I really can't go back to what Delta-Sigma does in my desktop gear - and I was a huge Sabre fan over other D-S implementations before I heard the difference. If the good doctor was to make a DAC then R-2R should be it IMO, especially to keep with his esteemed reputation.

 

[x RELIC x]

I think I'm going to have to email Audio-GD and make sure they still have some DAC-19 in stock :tongue_smile:  Anyone have/know the difference of the upgraded USB module (combo384)?

I have the Amanero USB upgrade for my DAC-19(10th Anv) that I received 10 days ago. To be honest I don't hear much difference from coaxial out from my DAP vs Audirvana+ 2.0 USB. I feel the upgrade is more to deal with any shortcomings of the stock USB module than to upgrade the sound over coaxial. Then again, I rarely use USB anyway so my experience on the matter isn't extensive.

 

[deadbeef]

   
That was introduced after I got mine and I didn't feel like the upgrade was worth bothering with.  If it had been offered at the time, I'd have gotten it.  IMO, I tend to get all the little upgrades that Kingwa offers since they're not too expensive and they help resale value.

 

I have the Amanero USB upgrade for my DAC-19(10th Anv) that I received 10 days ago. To be honest I don't hear much difference from coaxial out from my DAP vs Audirvana+ 2.0 USB. I feel the upgrade is more to deal with any shortcomings of the stock USB module than to upgrade the sound over coaxial. Then again, I rarely use USB anyway so my experience on the matter isn't extensive.

Ah, well I'll most likely be using the USB input so if it makes any impact probably worth the small upgrade fee.

 

[BucketInABucket]

If you people want a better upgrade, consider the WaveIO usb board if possible to fit it in.

 

[Stillhart]

Okay everyone, here are some quick notes on the DAC-19 vs GMB.  I was going to write a big “shootout” but I decided that the format kinda sucks because there’s always a winner and loser and I don’t think either of these DAC’s is bad at all.  Instead, I’ll be writing full reviews of each with some comparisons noted within the review.
 
I’m writing it in this thread for two reasons. First, it’s neutral territory.  I really don’t want to take sides here.  Second, I did all testing on the Liquid Carbon.  The phase splitter makes it so I can compare the SE DAC-19 to the Balanced GMB on even footing.  I also used my Audio-GD DI-2014 to feed coax to both units simultaneously.  This eliminated the USB interface as a possible source of audible differences.  It also made it so all I had to do was press a button on the front of the LC to swap back and forth instantly. 
 

1. Overall, both DAC’s sound surprisingly similar.  Almost all the differences I’m pointing out are going to be pretty subtle. 
2. Both DAC’s have the R2R tonality.  Tonal balance is very similar but not the same.  Soundstage on the GMB might be a little bigger but it’s close.
3. GMB has a slightly more analytical presentation.  Bass and mids are tighter and the treble is a tad more forward, giving a cleaner, more technical feel to the presentation.  This also gives it a slightly more "airy" feel.
4. DAC-19 has slightly more weight to the bass and mids.  This gives it a more musical, flowing presentation.  I believe the DAC-19 is also just a bit euphonic in the mids.  But this also makes it feel slightly mid-forward where the GMB feels a bit more balanced.
5. The analytical presentation on the GMB had me thinking the noise floor was lower at first.  On further testing, it’s clear to me that the DAC-19 actually has a lower noise floor and presents more spatial cues.
6. The GMB USB interface was giving me a clicking noise when I used the same USB cable and port as my DAC-19 (which wasn’t).  When I swapped to a different port (one that was attached directly to the motherboard), the clicking cleared up.  Conclusion:  the GMB's USB port is more sensitive than the DAC-19.
7. The GMB’s SE output sounds noticeably worse (mids are very recessed) than the balanced output.  This is very easily tested on the LC.  Do not buy this one if you are not using it in balanced mode.  Think of it as a balanced-only DAC.  For SE the DAC-19 is clearly better.
8. GMB is made in the USA, costs $1250, supports balanced+SE (with the caveat above) and support bitrates up to 24/192.  Schiit offers a 5-year warranty and pays for half of the shipping.  Shipping on the Schiit for me is ~$25.
9. DAC-19 is made in China, costs $800 before upgrades, supports SE only and supports bitrates up to 24/192 with the USB I have and goes much higher with the optional new Amanero USB upgrade.  Audio-GD offers a 10-year warranty and pays full shipping for the first year and no shipping after that.  Shipping on the AGD for me is ~$50.
10. Overall, both DAC’s sound surprisingly similar.  Seriously, I’m repeating this because it’s the most important point here.  Almost all the differences I pointed out are pretty subtle. 

 
So there you have it.  The differences come down mostly to a very slight flavor difference (slightly warmer or slightly more analytical).  I think with other amps, the difference between SE and Balanced will probably be more stark; with the LC, it’s basically a non-issue.  
 
Value, as always, is in the eye of the beholder.  For example, "made in the USA" means nothing to me, but others may be willing to pay a premium for that.  There's a $450 price difference between these units, which is not insignificant.  I'll leave you all to make your own determination on whether that price premium is worth it.

 

[doctorjazz]

So, I know you don't want to take sides, but, going on descriptions I've read about these 2 dacs, and the impression I've read about the LC as being slightly warm, system matching would seem to favor the GMB with the LC over the DAC-19, at least, not having heard any of these, logic seems to dictate. If course, if the difference is vanishingly small, May not be able to hear much difference at all. Do you thing one matches up with the LC better than the other (this doesn't mean it is better...a more analytic amp might be a better match for the DAC-19)?

 

[Stillhart]

So, I know you don't want to take sides, but, going on descriptions I've read about these 2 dacs, and the impression I've read about the LC as being slightly warm, system matching would seem to favor the GMB with the LC over the DAC-19, at least, not having heard any of these, logic seems to dictate. If course, if the difference is vanishingly small, May not be able to hear much difference at all. Do you thing one matches up with the LC better than the other (this doesn't mean it is better...a more analytic amp might be a better match for the DAC-19)?

 
I don't think either pairs better with the LC, no.  When I think about pairing things, I think that you want them to offset each other's weaknesses or accentuate each other's strengths.  I think the LC is pretty neutral so it doesn't really accentuate or offset anything.  The relative differences between the GMB and DAC-19 are very slight; neither is particularly "analytical" or "warm" on an absolute level, just relative to each other.
 
EDIT - It's getting late and I hope I explained that well..

 

[money4me247]

So, I know you don't want to take sides, but, going on descriptions I've read about these 2 dacs, and the impression I've read about the LC as being slightly warm, system matching would seem to favor the GMB with the LC over the DAC-19, at least, not having heard any of these, logic seems to dictate. If course, if the difference is vanishingly small, May not be able to hear much difference at all. Do you thing one matches up with the LC better than the other (this doesn't mean it is better...a more analytic amp might be a better match for the DAC-19)?

i actually got the feeling that stillhart prefers the dac 19 from reading that. hahah