Finally time to put Rio Karma to bed - replacement suggestions?
Mar 31, 2010 at 4:58 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 18

OMG teh Jambands

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Greetings, all. I've been a member here for awhile, but have rarely posted. Today, I am need of Head-Fi's collective expertise.

I have been a Rio Karma user since 2004. I originally had a 20GB Karma, and when the HDD died (as they all did eventually), I replaced it with a custom 60GB Karma in 2007. Over the years, I've made lots of small repairs, using the first Karma as a parts unit for the second. Now, however, my beloved Karma has suffered a fatal fall. the wheel and control stick seem to be broken beyond repair. More importantly, I am tired of fixing it (and out of spare parts to do so), and I think it is time for a new high-capacity DAP.

here's where I need your help, guys. As a happy Karma user for over 5 years, I feel clueless as to what is out there. I've looked around a bit, but it doesn't seem like there is much out there currently that strikes my fancy. I have scoped out the Cowon iAudio X5, Trekstor Vibez, Zune, and iPod Classic; all of which seem to have appealing features despite being a couple years older (and hard to find, in the cases of the Vibez and X5). I have also just been tipped off about these Nationite S:Flo2 players, which seem interesting.

Anyway, here are the things I am looking for in a DAP. Keep in mind that I am replacing a player that was made in 2003, so even something designed in '06 or '07 may have features that are new and interesting to me (or also some that I find unnecessary and useless). I am open to ALL suggestions!

-Capacity AT LEAST 30GB, and that' really a minimum. 60-80GB would be ideal. I have a lot of FLAC that I don't mind transcoding, but it's nice to be able to fit some lossless and/or video on there without taking up the entire capacity. Speaking of video, I don't really care about video, but if a player does it well, I might get into that a little bit.
a 16GB Flash player that I can put an SDHC card into would not be out of the question. Also, I am not afraid to modify, so if there's a fantastic 20GB DAP that I can swap a bigger HDD into (as was the case with the Karma), that's fine.

-Gapless playback (either native to the player or through Rockbox installation). I bought the Karma originally because it was the only player that did gapless. Now, I'm happy there are more options!

-Tactile controls rather than a full touch screen. I like being able to control the volume and track forward/back without looking at the player. I like that they added volume buttons to the side of the iPod touch. I wish they'd do that for the Classic, because that would make it a clear winner. The industry seems to be moving heavily towards touch screens, making it tougher for me to find something I like. If player has combination of touch screen and buttons, or some sort of remote, that would work too.

-Home/car stereo integration. Right now I have Karma docks in two different rooms, and a 3.5mm adapter in my car. I love to be able to use it with my home/car stereo. I guess iPod has the best options for something like this? Any other players that do it well?

-Nice interface features/sound quality/EQ. I can't explain how nice the Karma's interface was to someone who hasn't used one. To those who have: is there anything that compares? The sound quality and EQ were top-notch for its time, but I know there is stuff out now that surpasses it...right?

THANKS in advance for any opinions, advice, etc. I know Head-Fi is one of the smartest audio forums online, so I can't wait to hear what you guys have to say. I look forward to making an informed purchase. In the meantime, I've dug out my box of old minidiscs to rock out to!
atsmile.gif
 
Mar 31, 2010 at 6:02 PM Post #2 of 18
A Rockboxed iPod video 60/80g will give you all of that and more...car settings, crossfeed, parametric equalizer, etc.
If you want to watch video all you have to do is reboot in iPod mode, that's right both operating system are on board and can be used indepedently...
Search and found a used one last night, bought it, transfer my files overnight, Rockboxed it this morning and I'm impressed...
Was using a 80g Classic before...
Oh, and you may install a 240gb hard drive later on...
Look it up...
Cheers
 
Mar 31, 2010 at 6:10 PM Post #3 of 18
sounds promising. I know the iPod video doesn't have dedicated volume buttons, but that may be he one concession I have to make.

Is there some sort of iPod car charger with a line out built into it? I feel l like I've seen that somewhere.
 
Mar 31, 2010 at 8:17 PM Post #4 of 18
For pure soundquality reason these DAPs are fine choice like Sony X1060(included digital S master AMPs), Slfo2, AMP3 Pro, A847, S9 and Kenwood HD60GB9. But iPod Classic 160GB with AMPs help(like Mustang+ALO 18AWG CXS dock) scales up much higher. BTW ALO offering WM dock cable for Sony X1060 to use with AMPs for even better soundquality.
 
Apr 1, 2010 at 3:45 PM Post #5 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZARIM /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For pure soundquality reason these DAPs are fine choice like Sony X1060(included digital S master AMPs), Slfo2, AMP3 Pro, A847, S9 and Kenwood HD60GB9. But iPod Classic 160GB with AMPs help(like Mustang+ALO 18AWG CXS dock) scales up much higher. BTW ALO offering WM dock cable for Sony X1060 to use with AMPs for even better soundquality.


Thanks for the recommendations. I can immediately rule out the Sony X1060 and the S9 because of the touch screens. That's just not my cup of tea. I guess the S:flo2 is the same thing.

What's this Kenwood HD60GB9 all about? I can't seem to find much about it in English, so I don't know what any of the features are like.

Does anyone have an opinion on the Toshiba Gigabeat F60? I know they are supported by Rockbox, which is good. I have heard the sound quality is good too. I have a 2GB Gigabeat U that I never use because the sound quality is awful, but I suppose that's a totally different animal.

Who can tell me about Sansa? I know there are a few Sansa fans on thisboard. I had an e200 series for a brief period (I gave it to a friend), and I thought the interface and sound quality were good. But they don't have any high-capacity players, correct? What is the absolute max capacity Sansa player I could make by adding an SDHC card? 24GB? 32GB?

Again, thanks, guys!
 
Apr 1, 2010 at 4:04 PM Post #6 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by OMG teh Jambands /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Is there some sort of iPod car charger with a line out built into it? I feel l like I've seen that somewhere.


The Kensington LiquidAux connects to the iPod via the dock connector, which charges the iPod and has a line out. It also has a nifty little remote that you can connect to your steering wheel so you can keep the iPod tucked away and still control some basic functions like pause or skip.
 
Apr 23, 2010 at 8:06 AM Post #8 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by ZARIM /img/forum/go_quote.gif
For pure soundquality reason these DAPs are fine choice like Sony X1060(included digital S master AMPs), Slfo2, AMP3 Pro, A847, S9 and Kenwood HD60GB9. But iPod Classic 160GB with AMPs help(like Mustang+ALO 18AWG CXS dock) scales up much higher.


I would like to confirm this: are you saying that iPod Classic with amp sounds better than Sony X1060?

I want to get an X1060 to replace my Sony NW-HD5 but the X is very expensive in my country (I live in Bali, Indonesia, and Sony sells it for USD 650).
 
Apr 23, 2010 at 11:55 AM Post #9 of 18
why not just get another karma motherboard? it's pretty cheap on ebay and solve all your problem.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 4:52 AM Post #10 of 18
In fact, I've decided to do just that.
biggrin.gif


A month of shopping around has proven to me that nothing beats the Karma. Ok, maybe if I had the scratch to drop on an HM-801
tongue_smile.gif


But, you know what? This experience has been somewhat distressing. I know the Karma will not last forever, and eventaully I will want something new. I have realized I really don't like the direction the DAP market has taken the last couple of years. I hope we get through this touch screen fad in another year or two and get back to basics. That's the main thing that irks me. That, and I think I can count on one hand the number of current DAPs with actual volume buttons. Bah.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 10:28 AM Post #11 of 18
If I were you, I would first get rid of that hate for touchscreens. I am not saying you will love using a touchscreen, but at least try it. Never dismiss something without even checking whether you're gonna like it or not.

I used to be that kind of conservative when I used Rio Carbon and thought there was nothing to replace. I quickly learnt that it is just a matter of getting used to new equipment and the way it is operated.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 3:30 PM Post #12 of 18
I don't think that's going to happen. Do you think I've never used a touchscren? In fact, I have navigation in my car that I use practically every day. Because of this, I'm familiar with the challenge of using a touchscreen while driving. Since I do a large portion of my DAP listening in the car, I feel a touchscreen DAP would be highly impractical.

The other issue is the volume button thing. Why do manufacturers seem to treat volume buttons as optional? I have found iPods particularly annoying in this regard. How am I supposed to adjust the volume quickly if I need to? Kudos to Apple for adding the buttons to the iPod Touch. If they'd do the same with the next version of the Classic, I think I could fall in love with it.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 10:33 PM Post #13 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by OMG teh Jambands /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I don't think that's going to happen. Do you think I've never used a touchscren? In fact, I have navigation in my car that I use practically every day. Because of this, I'm familiar with the challenge of using a touchscreen while driving. Since I do a large portion of my DAP listening in the car, I feel a touchscreen DAP would be highly impractical.

The other issue is the volume button thing. Why do manufacturers seem to treat volume buttons as optional? I have found iPods particularly annoying in this regard. How am I supposed to adjust the volume quickly if I need to? Kudos to Apple for adding the buttons to the iPod Touch. If they'd do the same with the next version of the Classic, I think I could fall in love with it.



The Sony X series has both volume and play/pause, ff and rev physical buttons so I do not know what you are talking about.
 
Apr 24, 2010 at 11:35 PM Post #14 of 18
The price of HM-801 drives me away from it.
confused_face.gif


Quote:

Originally Posted by OMG teh Jambands /img/forum/go_quote.gif
In fact, I've decided to do just that.
biggrin.gif


A month of shopping around has proven to me that nothing beats the Karma. Ok, maybe if I had the scratch to drop on an HM-801
tongue_smile.gif


But, you know what? This experience has been somewhat distressing. I know the Karma will not last forever, and eventaully I will want something new. I have realized I really don't like the direction the DAP market has taken the last couple of years. I hope we get through this touch screen fad in another year or two and get back to basics. That's the main thing that irks me. That, and I think I can count on one hand the number of current DAPs with actual volume buttons. Bah.



 
Apr 25, 2010 at 2:49 AM Post #15 of 18
Quote:

Originally Posted by Szadzik /img/forum/go_quote.gif
The Sony X series has both volume and play/pause, ff and rev physical buttons so I do not know what you are talking about.


That's very good to know. Thanks for the info. For some reason, I had thought that particular player was strictly touch screen. I'm glad to know I was mistaken. And sorry if I came off as a ****** there. It wasn't my intention. I guess I'm sensitive about my DAP conservatism. :p

Now that I'm thinking more about this and reading these forums, I realize I could also use a setup like iPod Classic>LOD>an inexpensive mini amp like the Fiio E5. That'd give me the volume control buttons I want. I noticed Head-Direct sells a Yuin PK3 and E5 bundle for $49. Now I''m sort of thinking about this.
 

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