[MundoHiFiOz]

My current DAC is a Starting Points Systems DAC 3 and my amp is a Kercso Audio CompositeAmp.
I have 4 main headphones now.

Open-back:
- HiFiMan HE400 + FocusPad A (primary, home use)
- Philips Fidelio X2 (secondary, home use)

Closed-back:
- Final Sonorous III + Final A earpads (primary, home use + mobile use with xDuoo X2 DAP)
- Focal Spirit One S (mobile use with xDuoo X2 DAP)

I preferred the Final III with Final A earpads to the following closed phones:

- ATH-A1000Z (+ good balance, detail, nice soundstage / - Final III has better, fuller, punchier low-end)
- ATH-A2000Z (+ nice soundstage, detail, punchy low-end / - a little too much treble, a little too bright sound signature, expensive, Final III has fuller sound)
- ATH-W1000X + Dekoni Elite Sheepskin pads (+ good detail in treble and midrange / - small soundstage and very disturbing that has no sub-bass at all)
- Sony MDR-Z7 (+ audiophile basshead cans, definitive low-end, good balance, good soundstage, awesome build quality / - mids are a little recessed for me)
- Meze 99 Classics / Neo with "standard" (2nd gen.) factory pads (+ musical, full sounding / - small soundstage, boomy bass that spoils the sound)
- Final Sonorous III + Final D pads (factory setup) (+ midrange detail is great / - bass & treble edges are rounded, bass less punchy, soundstage can be fuzzy)
- Final Pandora Hope IV + Final A pads (factory setup) (- extreme amount of fake detail that is exciting at first, but simply unbearable after an hour for me)
- Final Pandora Hope IV + Final D pads (- in every aspect weaker than the Final III with the Final A pads)

It was a tie between them and the ATH-W1000Z Maestoso.
W1000Z is a very-very fine, balanced, musical sounding headphone, with big soundstage and heavenly comfort. The Final III bass hits bigger with the Final A pads.

I also loved the Meze 99 Classics with the Yaxi stPad2 earpads (much more balanced sound with authoritative bass), but only with Sense V1 amp, that gave them extra soundstage too. The Final III was much better with mobile DAP. (xDuoo X2)

Hi Dorien, between the ath and final headphones you compared, which one do you think has the better performance for vocals (natural sound, detail, clear and clean sounds).

 

[Dorien]

Hi Dorien, between the ath and final headphones you compared, which one do you think has the better performance for vocals (natural sound, detail, clear and clean sounds).

Hi Mundo,
Regarding the frequency response the W1000Z was the more neutral headphone.
The Final III with A pads has a more V-shaped character with more bass and treble.
Vocal clarity, instrument separation and details are on very high level on both. These are awesome closed headphones IMO.
Better than Shure SRH1540, Sony MDR-Z7 or Meze 99 Classics.

 

[dougms3]

Just got these in today.

The stock pads are terrible, it only has about a 1/4 in of depth making it an on ear headphone. It presses on the top and the bottom of my ear and causes alot of sound to leak. I swapped out the pads with some Cascadio audio impact pads I wasn't using. They are lambskin with a velour interior.

I was surprised at how good these sound after the pad swap. I found them to be very fast and warm, warmer than the Sony Z7m2. The mids and highs are very smooth and clear without being harsh. Treble is sweet and sparkles but there is a super tiny bit of graininess in the vocals regions. It has more soundstage than my modded Sony Z7m2 but lacks the imaging capabilities. Alot of body in the mids. Rolls off in lower bass regions, lacking sub bass, and theres a good amount of mid bass bleed. Could use a little more bass texture and impact but not bad at all.

Relaxed presentation that will allow for all day listening without fatigue. It is a very large headphone but pretty comfortable after the pad swap. Weight is usually not an issue for me but it may be heavy for some people.

A little bit disappointed with the build quality. The earcups creak if I squeeze them, not a big deal but I was not expecting that.

 

[dougms3]

Forgot to add pics.

 

[Dorien]

Just got these in today.

The stock pads are terrible, it only has about a 1/4 in of depth making it an on ear headphone. It presses on the top and the bottom of my ear and causes alot of sound to leak. I swapped out the pads with some Cascadio audio impact pads I wasn't using. They are lambskin with a velour interior.

I was surprised at how good these sound after the pad swap. I found them to be very fast and warm, warmer than the Sony Z7m2. The mids and highs are very smooth and clear without being harsh. Treble is sweet and sparkles but there is a super tiny bit of graininess in the vocals regions. It has more soundstage than my modded Sony Z7m2 but lacks the imaging capabilities. Alot of body in the mids. Rolls off in lower bass regions, lacking sub bass, and theres a good amount of mid bass bleed. Could use a little more bass texture and impact but not bad at all.

Relaxed presentation that will allow for all day listening without fatigue. It is a very large headphone but pretty comfortable after the pad swap. Weight is usually not an issue for me but it may be heavy for some people.

A little bit disappointed with the build quality. The earcups creak if I squeeze them, not a big deal but I was not expecting that.

I am glad you like them.

There is sub-bass, bass texture and bass impact with the Final Type A pads.
However if they are uncomfortable then no point in struggling with them.

 

[dougms3]

I am glad you like them.

There is sub-bass, bass texture and bass impact with the Final Type A pads.
However if they are uncomfortable then no point in struggling with them.

I think maybe I'm used to the bass from the Pioneer SE-m5 and modded Z7m2. To me, by comparison to what I have, the bass texture and impact is lacking. And there is sub bass but very little and it rolls off at the lower frequencies. But its not that bad, not a deal breaker by any means.

I don't think those pads will make much of a difference. They are PU correct? The type A pads look to be about 10mm deep. Even the D8000 pro earpads look to be only about 20mm.

The pads I have on there are tapered and about 30mm at the thickest part. If thats not going to bring out the best in the bass then those type A pads won't make a dent.

I've also tested the ZMF cowhide pads which I think I'm going to keep on it since the bass response is better and they are probably the most comfortable pads I have.

The soundstage improvement is very significant with the larger pads.

 

[Dorien]

I think maybe I'm used to the bass from the Pioneer SE-m5 and modded Z7m2. To me, by comparison to what I have, the bass texture and impact is lacking. And there is sub bass but very little and it rolls off at the lower frequencies. But its not that bad, not a deal breaker by any means.

I don't think those pads will make much of a difference. They are PU correct? The type A pads look to be about 10mm deep. Even the D8000 pro earpads look to be only about 20mm.

The pads I have on there are tapered and about 30mm at the thickest part. If thats not going to bring out the best in the bass then those type A pads won't make a dent.

I've also tested the ZMF cowhide pads which I think I'm going to keep on it since the bass response is better and they are probably the most comfortable pads I have.

The soundstage improvement is very significant with the larger pads.

On my setup the Sonorous III with the Type A pads had less, but better, tighter, deeper bass than the Sony Z7m1 with like-new factory pads.
The Type A pads are not the most comfortable ones, I admit. 15mm depth, mesh in the inner profile, the rest is PU leather. Quite hard to find and expensive...
I have no experience with the Z7m2.

 

[dougms3]

Frequency response measurement from DIY audio heaven.

Disregard the 40hz dip, it looks to be a measurement error. I think the higher end might also be incorrect, I could be wrong but my ears say it doesn't roll off like that.

 

[dougms3]

Was curious about how the inside of the earcups were dampened from the factory.

I've had excellent results with some other headphones so I decided to test some fo.q tape on the back of the driver and a little on the ear cup. The plastic on these headphones are not of the best quality, I would guess they resonate and vibrate alot.

Massive improvement in the bass, slams pretty hard, only a little bit better sub bass response, but around 60-120hz it hits hard. Texture and detail in the bass improved as well. Upper mids and lower treble have come forward a little and has more presence. Seems to be cleaner treble, better separation, more resolving and microdetail is more audible. Quite surprised with how much improvement there was.

 

[dougms3]

So I've been rolling earpads and found that the thicker the earpad, the more recessed the vocals became. Also the thicker earpads provides more bass.

Been trying to find the right balance and found this earpad to be the best solution to my ears. The perforation in the inside of the earpad seem to attentuate some of the sharper frequencies and sybilance while still maintaining the improved bass response. Vocals aren't as recessed as they were with the thicker ZMF and impact pads. If anyone is interested, the 95mm fits perfectly. I have a set of these same pads for my other headphones and the 100mm is too loose.

I also tested this round sheepskin earpad (100mm). It fits perfectly and sounds good but still a little too thick and vocals were still too recessed for my liking. And it didn't attentuate the treble and sybiliance like the perforated pad. I wonder why Final decided to use unusually thin earpads on this headphone, that alone makes this headphone sound really weird with super sharp treble.

On another note, as I was listening to the my headphones, I noticed there is alot of vibration coming from the plastic cups. This usually means theres alot of resonance. Decided to add some of the fo.q ta102 tape to the cups where it was vibrating the most. This tightened up the bass with more impact and texture. Mids, especially vocals are less recessed and it reigned in some of that hot treble while still retaining that wonderful shimmer and sparkle. Overall, it still retains its signature but sounds like a more refined version of itself.

The improvements from such small mods lead me to believe the driver is highly capable but sound quality suffers from the low quality plastic for the earcups. The rest of the headphone seems to be well made, the aluminum chassis is thick and transmits minimal vibration. The ultimate resolution on this headphone is excellent, matching my Pioneer se-monitor5 or perhaps slightly better.

 

[borrego]

So I've been rolling earpads and found that the thicker the earpad, the more recessed the vocals became. Also the thicker earpads provides more bass.

Do you find the square cross section pads you chose would completely block the vents on the baffle plates and make the weird sound?

I would recommend using only round cross section pads (like the stock pads) which leave the vents effective.

 

[HipHopScribe]

The improvements from such small mods lead me to believe the driver is highly capable but sound quality suffers from the low quality plastic for the earcups. The rest of the headphone seems to be well made, the aluminum chassis is thick and transmits minimal vibration. The ultimate resolution on this headphone is excellent, matching my Pioneer se-monitor5 or perhaps slightly better.

This doesn't surprise me, even stepping up to the Sonorous IVs which also use plastic cups, the plastic feels higher quality and thicker, which probably helps reduce vibrations, so it seems like the cheap plastic on the IIIs is a real handicap

 

[dougms3]

Do you find the square cross section pads you chose would completely block the vents on the baffle plates and make the weird sound?

I would recommend using only round cross section pads (like the stock pads) which leave the vents effective.

I'm not sure which vents you are referring to. The aftermarket pads don't block anything more than the stock pads. I've inspected the stock pads and if anything the aftermarket pads block less than the stock pads. If I'm missing something, maybe you can point it out in the image.

Methinks you give Final too much credit regarding the earpads. I've inspected them and they are nothing special, the material is synthetic, it has what appears to a fitting ring inside so the pads stay firmly in place but other than that its quite a terrible earpad. I can safely say all of the aftermarket pads I've tested on this headphone are an improvement compared to the stock pads. The sheen mesh covering the driver is very thick compared to other earpads I've seen, meaning either they're using the thicker mesh to help with comfort or to attenuate the higher frequencies as it is treble hot or maybe both. Could possibly also be an aesthetics thing as the headphone becomes very wide with thicker earpads.

The stock earpads maybe have 1/2 inch of depth max and makes it essentially an on ear headphone for me. The shallow depth causes the driver grill to press on my ear cartilage and I cannot wear the stock pads more than 10 minutes without becoming very uncomfortable.

I swapped back to the stock pads to check if I'm missing anything. My assessment is that bass is reduced by about 80% with almost no sub bass, soundstage is reduced massively, treble is too hot and becomes highly fatiguing, imaging is also condensed and becomes vague. The only positive is that the mids are more forward have slightly more presence.

 

[dougms3]

This doesn't surprise me, even stepping up to the Sonorous IVs which also use plastic cups, the plastic feels higher quality and thicker, which probably helps reduce vibrations, so it seems like the cheap plastic on the IIIs is a real handicap

I guess its part of their pricing strategy. I'm curious what the difference is with the Sonorous II because they appear to be visually identical.

I can see the purpose of the balanced armature in the IV and VI, I would guess that if they were using the same 50mm driver, it helps to neutralize the dip in the upper mids and provide a fuller sound.

I'm really dissappointed with the creaking of the plastic in the outer ring of the earcups. The build quality is excellent except for that part. Does anyone else have this problem or is it just me?

 

[HipHopScribe]

I guess its part of their pricing strategy. I'm curious what the difference is with the Sonorous II because they appear to be visually identical.

I can see the purpose of the balanced armature in the IV and VI, I would guess that if they were using the same 50mm driver, it helps to neutralize the dip in the upper mids and provide a fuller sound.

I'm really dissappointed with the creaking of the plastic in the outer ring of the earcups. The build quality is excellent except for that part. Does anyone else have this problem or is it just me?

The problem I had with the Sonorous IV is that the drivers weren't well integrated. It often sounded like they were just each doing their own thing at the same time rather than forming a cohesive whole. It's actually why I bought the IIIs, because I thought the dynamic driver in the IVs seemed fairly capable, so I figured the non-hybrid might be more cohesive. But the III has its own acoustic design shortfalls, so I didn't end up keeping either.

I feel like if Final had worked with just the dynamic driver and improved the acoustic design they would have ended up with a better headphone than the hybrid design