[docholliday]

   
My take on Fiio is to wait 2 - 3 months on any new release. Early adopters turn out to be beta testers.
 
 

That's not just Fiio. It's what most companies have to do nowadays to survive the rapidly changing market. See "agile development". Even Ford and Toyota do it, which is why there's so many firmware updates to cars (and recalls). Adobe is one of the worst - you're definitely paying to be one of their "beta testers", er, customers.

 

[hifikid245]

I am seriously considering this DAP but my upon some quick reading of few reviews most of them have bad experience with this particularly the UI, is it really that unstable or slow? What are the few quirks this DAP's firmware still have?

 

[docholliday]

I don't do reviews and other subjective armchair discussions about sound quality, but I just posted over on the N3 thread about an issue with the N3 that I noticed. In the processes of testing that issue, I built an A-B box so that I could truly test between the N3 and (X1-II/Fireface/828). It's simply a plastic box with a DPDT switch and 3x 1/8" jacks (out to hp, source 1, source 2). I wanted to verify what I was hearing was correct without having to pause, unhook, rehook, and play. I ended up copying the test files over to a few cards and shoving them into the N3 and X1-II.
 
The master (reference) file was played via foobar2000 direct to the DAW boxes. Of course, no EQ in the line, and at unity gain until the amp to the monitors, which are Genelec 8020 and Tannoy 501a. A pair of Sony MDR-7506 was also used directly off each DAWs headphone monitor amp and showed the same detail as the speakers.
 
Volume on both players was fairly similar. Again, this isn't about sound quality, but rather that certain tones didn't ring correctly. And on the N3, it didn't matter what volume or gain I used, the same tone appeared.
 
The N3 has much more clarity on the mids with a good presence, more "forward" than my calibrated studio monitors (and the stage was much more intimate with presence). The X1-II has a much wider soundstage and recesses the mids further away than the studio monitors with a bit less detail (vocal resonance).
 
The tracks I noticed the resonance issues on most are as follows:
 
- Rush, Limelight (The Spirit of Radio, 24-96 HDTracks) FLAC
- Dar Williams, Mercy of the Fallen (Beauty of the Rain, 24-88/DVD-A source) FLAC
- Kay Hanley, Fall (Cherry Marmalade, 16-44/CD) FLAC
 
These tracks on the N3, the drums and cymbals sound very plastic with missing resonance and reverberation. ... The drums don't have the proper reverberance showing up as a 'tap' and the cymbals come through as "ting" instead of showing the full splash. The ride cymbal also sounds very flat and has no resonance.
 
As an additional check, I put the same card into my Fiio X1-II with JH-5, UERR, and JH-16 (all full custom). It shows the drums at full resonance and the cymbals ring the same as on the Genelecs (with the obvious addition of clarity from the 8020s). But, the issue with the X1-II is that the cymbals came through sounding further separated and a bit louder. I had to engage the EQ and drop the 16K down 1db to get the cymbals to sound the same as the DAWs. So I would say that neither player is "neutral". 
 
Again this isn't about the subjective feel or "what I think this sounds like" and isn't intended to be such. It was a diagnostic procedure for the N3 and I wanted to add the info here on the X1 thread in case somebody else who has both wanted to see if they noticed it too. 

 

[gemmoglock]

  I don't do reviews and other subjective armchair discussions about sound quality, but I just posted over on the N3 thread about an issue with the N3 that I noticed. In the processes of testing that issue, I built an A-B box so that I could truly test between the N3 and (X1-II/Fireface/828). It's simply a plastic box with a DPDT switch and 3x 1/8" jacks (out to hp, source 1, source 2). I wanted to verify what I was hearing was correct without having to pause, unhook, rehook, and play. I ended up copying the test files over to a few cards and shoving them into the N3 and X1-II.
 
The master (reference) file was played via foobar2000 direct to the DAW boxes. Of course, no EQ in the line, and at unity gain until the amp to the monitors, which are Genelec 8020 and Tannoy 501a. A pair of Sony MDR-7506 was also used directly off each DAWs headphone monitor amp and showed the same detail as the speakers.
 
Volume on both players was fairly similar. Again, this isn't about sound quality, but rather that certain tones didn't ring correctly. And on the N3, it didn't matter what volume or gain I used, the same tone appeared.
 
The N3 has much more clarity on the mids with a good presence, more "forward" than my calibrated studio monitors (and the stage was much more intimate with presence). The X1-II has a much wider soundstage and recesses the mids further away than the studio monitors with a bit less detail (vocal resonance).
 
The tracks I noticed the resonance issues on most are as follows:
 
- Rush, Limelight (The Spirit of Radio, 24-96 HDTracks) FLAC
- Dar Williams, Mercy of the Fallen (Beauty of the Rain, 24-88/DVD-A source) FLAC
- Kay Hanley, Fall (Cherry Marmalade, 16-44/CD) FLAC
 
These tracks on the N3, the drums and cymbals sound very plastic with missing resonance and reverberation. ... The drums don't have the proper reverberance showing up as a 'tap' and the cymbals come through as "ting" instead of showing the full splash. The ride cymbal also sounds very flat and has no resonance.
 
As an additional check, I put the same card into my Fiio X1-II with JH-5, UERR, and JH-16 (all full custom). It shows the drums at full resonance and the cymbals ring the same as on the Genelecs (with the obvious addition of clarity from the 8020s). But, the issue with the X1-II is that the cymbals came through sounding further separated and a bit louder. I had to engage the EQ and drop the 16K down 1db to get the cymbals to sound the same as the DAWs. So I would say that neither player is "neutral". 
 
Again this isn't about the subjective feel or "what I think this sounds like" and isn't intended to be such. It was a diagnostic procedure for the N3 and I wanted to add the info here on the X1 thread in case somebody else who has both wanted to see if they noticed it too. 

I don't have the N3 but your comment on the X1 II cymbals is spot on!
 

  Dear DaNoose,
 
The EQ function is controled by the DAC chip PCM5242. The Bluetooth transmission won't go through it. So the EQ is no function in Bluetooth mode.
 
Best regards

 
@FiiO or anyone else: when I run Line Out on the X1 II do the EQ settings apply to LO, or only to HO? Thank you

 

[docholliday]

   
@FiiO or anyone else: when I run Line Out on the X1 II do the EQ settings apply to LO, or only to HO? Thank you

On the X1-II the LO DOES work with the EQ!

 

[gemmoglock]

  On the X1-II the LO DOES work with the EQ!

 
Great, thanks!

 

[ASpencer]

  That's not just Fiio. It's what most companies have to do nowadays to survive the rapidly changing market. See "agile development". Even Ford and Toyota do it, which is why there's so many firmware updates to cars (and recalls). Adobe is one of the worst - you're definitely paying to be one of their "beta testers", er, customers.

 
Adobe, Cyberlink, Magix, Microsoft, Samsung, etc... the reporting of bugs and firmware updates are a way of life, worth enduring if the core product is sensational.  I was initially annoyed how often my early Blu-ray players required updates to play new titles.  Even one of my Onkyo receivers needed to be sent to the factory for a free firmware update to correct a "flutter" decoder problem.  Tests under factory conditions are no comparison to actual consumers.

 

[Jayden16]

Your very in depth responses are much appreciated DocHolliday. However, for the average user, putting in that much work just to have a dedicated music player play music without ridiculous lag seems insane to me. I've gone through all of my tags and while they're not 100% perfect, they're definitely better than what 90% of people would have. All iTunes metadata was stripped away a long time ago. My main argument is still this - my friends original X1 handles the exact same card with the exact same library significantly better. The lag on the original X1 is practically non-existent in comparison. The root cause of the problem lies with an underpowered processor in the X1ii, along with the new software Fiio are using. I'm familiar with agile development, as I am in my final year of an IT degree, but I really don't know if they'll be able to fix this with optimisation before they give up on it and release the X1iii.

 

[OldRoadToad]

  Your very in depth responses are much appreciated DocHolliday. However, for the average user, putting in that much work just to have a dedicated music player play music without ridiculous lag seems insane to me. I've gone through all of my tags and while they're not 100% perfect, they're definitely better than what 90% of people would have. All iTunes metadata was stripped away a long time ago. My main argument is still this - my friends original X1 handles the exact same card with the exact same library significantly better. The lag on the original X1 is practically non-existent in comparison. The root cause of the problem lies with an underpowered processor in the X1ii, along with the new software Fiio are using. I'm familiar with agile development, as I am in my final year of an IT degree, but I really don't know if they'll be able to fix this with optimisation before they give up on it and release the X1iii.

Thou speakest de troof.
 
ORT

 

[peskypesky]

  Your very in depth responses are much appreciated DocHolliday. However, for the average user, putting in that much work just to have a dedicated music player play music without ridiculous lag seems insane to me. I've gone through all of my tags and while they're not 100% perfect, they're definitely better than what 90% of people would have. All iTunes metadata was stripped away a long time ago. My main argument is still this - my friends original X1 handles the exact same card with the exact same library significantly better. The lag on the original X1 is practically non-existent in comparison. The root cause of the problem lies with an underpowered processor in the X1ii, along with the new software Fiio are using. I'm familiar with agile development, as I am in my final year of an IT degree, but I really don't know if they'll be able to fix this with optimisation before they give up on it and release the X1iii.

Agreed.

 

[docholliday]

  Your very in depth responses are much appreciated DocHolliday. However, for the average user, putting in that much work just to have a dedicated music player play music without ridiculous lag seems insane to me. I've gone through all of my tags and while they're not 100% perfect, they're definitely better than what 90% of people would have. All iTunes metadata was stripped away a long time ago. My main argument is still this - my friends original X1 handles the exact same card with the exact same library significantly better. The lag on the original X1 is practically non-existent in comparison. The root cause of the problem lies with an underpowered processor in the X1ii, along with the new software Fiio are using. I'm familiar with agile development, as I am in my final year of an IT degree, but I really don't know if they'll be able to fix this with optimisation before they give up on it and release the X1iii.

Yes, I agree that Fiio may end up giving up on the X1-II. They mentioned in late February about fixes in "the next firmware to be released next month" for gapless, buffering stutter, and lag. It's now the first of April and not a peep. Their site is full of fixes and other stuff for the X5-III, but nary a word about the X1-II. I've posted there a few times asking what the progress is on any X1-II firmware, even if it's an alpha that we could test and they haven't even responded to the posts. 
 
And, yes, while the X1-II is slow, as for me the same card in the Cayin N3 is much faster, it's also cheaper so I'm willing to deal with it. My collection isn't well tagged and organized for the X1-II. It's tagged accurately because the same files are accessed via the desktop, other players, and exported for usage in my truck's headunit. If you think the X1-II is tag sensitive, try a Kenwood or Pioneer headunit and see what it does with bad tags! Funny thing is that my original Kenwood headunit made the X1-II look like a speed demon. It wasn't until I upgraded to the Excelon that things sped up considerably. The original was a $200 and the new one a $600 unit.

 

[georgelai57]

I bought the X1iii solely for its In-Vehicle Mode as that was cheaper than replacing the built-in CD player in my car. I let it play every single song and it does not replace my other DAPs, iPhones, etc nor complement them.

To me, it is perfect for that purpose.

 

[gemmoglock]

I bought the X1iii solely for its In-Vehicle Mode as that was cheaper than replacing the built-in CD player in my car. I let it play every single song and it does not replace my other DAPs, iPhones, etc nor complement them.

To me, it is perfect for that purpose.

I really like it as at home, I use that to avoid draining the battery too
 
@FiiO I hope a new update will come soon. I noticed over at Shanling, they have been improving the M1 further with a long list of updates a few days ago:
Update diary:
1. Improve Bluetooth compatibility 
2. Adding Replay Gain function
3. Improving Screen Locked Operation, adding Shut Off, Only Volume Adjusting 
4. Adding function of deleting songs on playing interface
5. Correcting the error of shutting off while lyrics showing
6. Lower down the minimum brightness
7. Adding Flip Over function 
8.Adding checking songs ranking on playing interface
9. Adding Recent Playing function
10.Adding connecting to smartphones by Bluetooth, allowing M1 to skip songs.
11. All music in My favorite can be deleted in one time
12. time locked interface display played songs infomation
13.Debug for random playing 
 
Although I won't go back to the M1 as I feel the SQ is still better on the X1 II, it would be nice if you all also updated the FW a little more quickly. You don't need to fix all the bugs/lag at once since being a new OS there are so many things to do...

 

[ASpencer]

I bought the X1iii solely for its In-Vehicle Mode as that was cheaper than replacing the built-in CD player in my car. I let it play every single song and it does not replace my other DAPs, iPhones, etc nor complement them.

To me, it is perfect for that purpose.

 
Seeing that this is a budget player, dedicated use such as this makes perfect sense.  The same applies to utilizing the X1 II as a "rough and tumble" player out in the field.  While many have written opprobrium about this player, the plusses are also omnipresent.

 

[docholliday]

   
Seeing that this is a budget player, dedicated use such as this makes perfect sense.  The same applies to utilizing the X1 II as a "rough and tumble" player out in the field.  While many have written opprobrium about this player, the plusses are also omnipresent.

If the X1-II had a massively faster processor and all kinds of features, I could just imagine what people would find to complain about..."The battery life on it is horrible" or if a larger battery was installed for said processor speed, "The player is ridiculously sized and unwieldy".