[Herman]

Not having owned or listened to AK DAP I will not add to the well written post above. But as a convinced listener to Alac on iPhone with Dragonfly red I must say that The Fiio M11 Plus ESS is an incredible improvement. It makes all of my in ears and headphone sound so much better. That goes for wired (Final Heaven VI, F7200, Audiolab M-Ear, Master & Dynamic 40) and wireless (Senn MTW 2, M&D 7 plus and B&W PX7). as previously stated worth buying new.

 

[whitedragem]

Thank you very much whitedragem for your kindness and detailed, informative reply. You are really appreciated.

I mainly would use the DAP to play DXD 352.8KHz 24/32 bit, DSD ( 64, 128, and 256). also, I would use it to play music using TIDAL. As you know, AK300 can't play *.iso files, and its upper limit is 192k-24bit for PCM and DSD 128 (not native). I have DXD 352.8KHz 24/32 bit and DSD 256 because I play them on a desktop setup, and yes, it makes a difference at that setup. To use the AK300, I convert the files using Jriver.

I use the DAP on the go while I am at work, outside, at the mall during my wife's shopping and travel.

I use the DAP mainly with CIEMs UE 6 Pro and UE 18+ Pro. While I am away from my desktop setup at home, I will use it with Sennheiser HD700, Stax L300, and Focal Elear. (HD800\LCD3 are for desktop setup)

Excellent; the heavy use of DSD/DXD as primary files types means that the easily found ESS ‘Sabre’ DAC chipped’ variant will fit the bill nicely. (I believe if I was to purchase the Sabre DAC design, I’d definitely run in ‘DSD convert mode’.
I have a few ‘nice’ Sabre DAC products that I play with, and DSD (DXD) seems really good on them… (A great match!!)

Not having owned or listened to AK DAP I will not add to the well written post above. But as a convinced listener to Alac on iPhone with Dragonfly red I must say that The Fiio M11 Plus ESS is an incredible improvement. It makes all of my in ears and headphone sound so much better. That goes for wired (Final Heaven VI, F7200, Audiolab M-Ear, Master & Dynamic 40) and wireless (Senn MTW 2, M&D 7 plus and B&W PX7). as previously stated worth buying new.

What Herman highlights here is something few talk about and is not an accepted fact- but BLUETOOTH sounds better. (no lie)
It must be something in the file lift and encode for BT methodology that gives a ‘more pure sound’ (to the original/source), but having ran quite a few bluetooth products from the M11+ I find it delivers a better sound that a straight Android player (ie phone) etc..
IT isn’t CODECs; and I go to effort to lock BT transmit to 44khz (same as my source files); there is just something about it.. (and not higher volume etc).

For anyone who has ever owned ‘nice transports’, a certain “sound improvement” comes with great kit.
The OP has likely had this as their experience, owning ‘a nice A&K transport(/DAP)’, but I have experienced it many times, in the realm of digital, where “zero’s and ones” are not the same from every box.
The best example that was ‘night and day’ I can think of, on quick reflection, was a Toshiba HD-DVD player, it was a ‘third gen unit’ of approx $1000 market value ($Aus), and vs blueray players of third and fourth gen around the same price point; the surround stage and music in the orchestral parts of ‘good movies’ was just so much better.
A hard watch was ‘Enemy of the State’ on DVD, where the dialogue was atrocious on the ‘high end’ bluray players (but had great upscaling), vs the ‘low res image’ on the unupscaled HDDVD player (but with VASTLY BETTER SOUND).

It is why our house doesn’t make the jump to 4K UHDs (as our primary format) due to Blurays sounding much better from our ancient Oppo player.
Our 4k UHD player isn’t ‘flagship’ and dialogue is muffled by comparison.
for the record I have been a pro installer-know how to configure these units, and know how to get their best output methods (usually only buying disc transports with multiple HDMI outputs etc).
Having a few $400+ ‘quality’ HDMI cables, it isn’t the cables.
Better digital transportation IS a thing; from better power isolation to better clock chips /board layout and design; many factors contribute-
ultimately it goes so far as to deliver better bluetooth music as well.
I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t experienced it ‘first hand’. (and it wasn’t something I was looking for or expected); and for those ‘who reckon they know more about this and was to dismiss this as observation bias or some BS; I have five years of tertiary psych under my belt, and a ’few other science fields’ (at Uni), and know how to test audio, and how to relax and listen to music.
Being familiar with kit and setups and ‘doing this for decades’- when something is ‘night and day‘ different (ie muffled vs ‘unveiled’) it isn’t ‘subtle’ nor ‘suggestion’.
This is science, objective and phenomenologically ‘sound’ in principle and product!

 

[Ahmadsabry]

Excellent; the heavy use of DSD/DXD as primary files types means that the easily found ESS ‘Sabre’ DAC chipped’ variant will fit the bill nicely. (I believe if I was to purchase the Sabre DAC design, I’d definitely run in ‘DSD convert mode’.
I have a few ‘nice’ Sabre DAC products that I play with, and DSD (DXD) seems really good on them… (A great match!!)

Unfortunately, the ESS version is not available here in UAE, only the AKM version. To get the ESS version, I must order it overseas, adding about 10% VAT plus shipping to the price

So what do you think? Shall I go with the AKM version or order the ESS version overseas?

 

[whitedragem]

if I could chose from either, in front of me, same price…. hmm!

 

[FiiO]

made no differance

If you are convenient, please contact support@fiio.com about that with the certain music file attached.

Best regards

 

[Cheerfu1]

A couple of questions for the FiiO team and the owners of "M11 Plus ESS"

1. Does it get hot? Wonder if "FiiO SK-M11" leather case with an opening on the back would be useful.
2. What do you think of the volume touch panel, would you prefer an old-fashioned knob similar to M17 on the top or side?
3. I've seen a post saying that the new version of M15 is in the works, is the any ETA for that, may be summer or end of the year? Sorry if I missed a thread on that.

 

[Ichos]

A couple of questions for the FiiO team and the owners of "M11 Plus ESS"

1. Does it get hot? Wonder if "FiiO SK-M11" leather case with an opening on the back would be useful.
2. What do you think of the volume touch panel, would you prefer a old-fashioned knob similar to M17 on the top or side?
3. I've seen a post saying that the new version of M15 is in the works, is the any ETA for that, may be summer or end of the year? Sorry if I missed a thread on that.

1. No it doesn't get hot
2. The touch panel is very practical and offers easy volume adjustment with two methods.
3. I don't know

 

[whitedragem]

A couple of questions for the FiiO team and the owners of "M11 Plus ESS"

1. Does it get hot? Wonder if "FiiO SK-M11" leather case with an opening on the back would be useful.
2. What do you think of the volume touch panel, would you prefer a old-fashioned knob similar to M17 on the top or side?
3. I've seen a post saying that the new version of M15 is in the works, is the any ETA for that, may be summer or end of the year? Sorry if I missed a thread on that.

1. The FiiO custom case (with the grill) is FANTASTIC.
Some argue that the buttons are not easily identifiable or have enough tactile marking to feel easily where they are..
It is a great case that I bought ‘day one’ due to having owned previous FiiO players (that got warm), and knowing that batteries last ‘longer’ (as do most electronics) when they are ‘cooler’.
The internal design, with attention given to heat transfer is aligned with that grill; they are a great match, well thought out, and a reason to upgrade the included case that comes with the M11 units.
As for getting hot- depends on usage; I can run, reliably for two and a half days, from a full charge, just outputting digital via COAX. In this usage scenario, using the included ‘pure music mode player’ and using flac files, the player is cool.
If, at the other end of the spectrum, I was to plug in headphones (large over ear), and run them from the 4.4mm balanced output, then the player would be ‘nice and warm’ (using the grill case); if I turn on DSD conversion’ then the player runs ‘hot’. Not ‘bad‘ hot, again, I use the grill case,.. but I wouldn’t run ‘convert to DSD mode’ AND use the balanced output to drive hard to load drivers, in the insulating case that comes in the box. (And I certainly wouldn’t want to run in ‘bare’ even though the M11+ LOOKs FANTASTIC).
Apple Music is a hard hitter for temperature, and some third party music players, when using lots of advanced features can make the unit ‘toasty’.

Any one thing by itself, eg DSD convert and outputting digitally, OR driving headphones and simply playing FLACs straight from the included player, no ‘conversion’, are mild to ‘warm’ at most.
In this regard I completely agree with Ichos.
As a rule of thumb I do not charge the unit whilst doing DSD convert etc. Fortunately FiiO have a ‘vehicle mode’ that allows switching off charging altogether, and simply use the power from the USB cable.. (doesn’t get warm or ‘hot’ doing this)

2. Volume touch panel. hate it and love it.
Hate it cause it means I gave up FiiOs great volume dials.
Love it cause the removal of the volume dial means that they could fit all the advanced electronics in this ‘tiny’ little player (and have a huge battery) (-did I mention 60 hour runtimes for my music at home?)
I disable the touch panel, and due to cool FiiO menu options that control the touch panel, I have a range of options for ‘auto disable’ (/auto re-enable?) and various modes like using the touch panel underlying buttons (it has them too!) to activate the typical android ‘on screen volume slider’. It is a ‘best of all worlds approach’.
But the older X5 (mk III) had a great volume wheel, as do the more premium/larger FiiO ’M’ series players if I recall correctly.
The only reason I turn off the touch bar is to do with ‘electrical purity’; I am the sort of person who turns Displays Off modes to be active on ALL my hifi kit, an old habit stemming back to the early nineties, when electrical transports could benefit from such things. (some new units do too, such as modern Cambridge Disc transports that run the electrical cables for the front display too close to ‘sensitive’ electronics (and a ‘known good hack’ is opening the chassis and relocating that cable).
Not all players will ‘display off’ make a difference, but due to trying to turn an Android phone into a digital transport, and it actually ‘nearly being half decent’ when I turned off twenty to thirty ‘device sensors’ and electrical ‘draws’, I found that
a) phone is useless for (HiFi) music unless dedicated to music and nothing else, and needing a lot of configuring to ‘get entry level DAP sound’ (at best)”, and that
b) using another android device, the FiiO M11+, as a transport, going to stick to tried and tested rules simply in an effort to ‘save time’ on the road to HiFi greatness.
The volume touch panel is actually pretty cool, and the way it can be configured in a plethora of ways, with control over how effective it makes changes, it is a GREAT EVOLUTION of the volume wheel.

Reviews of the M17 give it a ‘plus point’ due to ‘instant volume control’. I’d not go that far, but do recognise that tactile controls are great. Hence loving the assignable button on the M11+ and the options to set the device up to be the way a ‘user wants’.

__________
Beyond points 1 and 2, I have nothing to add (I know not about an M15 replacement etc), and regarding my ‘heat analysis’, I do not use the ESS variant, and I feel Ichos and others will know more.. I’d say my information is likely ‘wrong’ (at least possibly a little), due to the extended run times and higher volume drive capability of the ESS variant (from the same sized battery).
The acknowledged/recognised differences are in the DAC chip change and the volume output electronics (ie no ‘die shrink’ or other changes)

For what it is worth, the M11+ case is beautiful.
I put a photo up a few pages back, but will include a thumbnail here for any fresh to this thread to see some of the cases’ niceties.


It ‘feels‘ friendly and warm.

 

[illumidata]

For anyone that's wondering what the internals look like and appreciates good PCB layouts!

 

[123peter]

The original black leather case or a brown leather case with a grill - it looks great, it looks even better.
Unfortunately, whoever designed both cases did not think about securing the closing flap, e.g. with a clasp, clasp, Velcro for clothing ... etc
The effect is that you never know and there is no control if the DAP will fall out of the inside. I checked it many times and I do not use the original one and I returned the brown one with a grill (many comments from the store also confirm this), it practically disqualifies them.
Each of us has the original black version, take out the DAP from the black cover a dozen times and put it back - when you pick it up for the hundredth time, you feel that it pops out by itself - my heart stopped for a moment.

I bought a silicone one that adheres very well, you can hardly see it, it surrounds the entire DAP before falling, and the back is open, dissipating heat well and at the same time does not cover the nice diamond back.
I recommend silicone versions, especially black clear.

 

[ron spencer]

The original black leather case or a brown leather case with a grill - it looks great, it looks even better.
Unfortunately, whoever designed both cases did not think about securing the closing flap, e.g. with a clasp, clasp, Velcro for clothing ... etc
The effect is that you never know and there is no control if the DAP will fall out of the inside. I checked it many times and I do not use the original one and I returned the brown one with a grill (many comments from the store also confirm this), it practically disqualifies them.
Each of us has the original black version, take out the DAP from the black cover a dozen times and put it back - when you pick it up for the hundredth time, you feel that it pops out by itself - my heart stopped for a moment.

I bought a silicone one that adheres very well, you can hardly see it, it surrounds the entire DAP before falling, and the back is open, dissipating heat well and at the same time does not cover the nice diamond back.
I recommend silicone versions, especially black clear.

Where did you get the silicone one? What is the brand?

 

[123peter]

on Aliexpress - are 2 types Clear and Black Clear.
In galery on white stand with remote fiio pilot is my F11 m11 Ltd photo in this Black Cler cover .

By the way, you can also buy a protective glass for the back for one delivery price.
The glass at the front and the glass at the back fit the cover very nicely.

 

[Cheerfu1]

Personally I don’t like silicone cases unless they are used for sport or wet/harsh environment. They accumulate dust/dirt and look cheap. I would opt for soft nappa leather, preferably saddle brown or british green, forgive me nature. I would use leather case or no case at all.

 

[123peter]

I agree with you leather look better.
The genuine black leather cover from FIIO and the two brown cover with grills are nice
- but the lack of fastening and the risk of sliding off the cover and falling to the ground is very high.
Covers from Astell & Kern - a model of quality and in interesting colors, just the first league.

 

[SRKRAM]

yes; I like USB for a range of reasons, and a big fan of ‘educate the user’.
Truth is USB is only way to lift audio from some products, eg Playstation 5 if using the HRTF using 3D Audio that tempest can render..

As for many of those frequencies, for ‘consumer audio’, probably not so necessary.
Even upscaling to DSD levels the Diablo is ‘capable of’ is crazy hard to do (‘on the fly’, certainly), and 768/1536khz is probably pushing the limits so much that ot typically degrades ultimate performance if white doc spec sheets are given a glance (most DAC chips perform ‘better’ when not running on their ‘bleeding edge’)..

the best thing about usb audio is to do with usb2 async modes and fast/powerful controller chips- this has done wonders for ‘entry level’ DACs and therefore modern ‘consumer’ sound.

DACs are affordable, and benchmark well.
certainly to ‘great measurements’ on expensive measuring kit.

of course audio, like many fields, will have future breakthroughs- some of which will likely lead to paradigm shifts with our understanding.
in the meantime, audio is an often confusing, often ‘unscientific’ “game” that many pundits are keen to master.

likely is why we come to hobby dens like head-fi.
as a user, when I post about experienced phenomena, I feel my voice deserves ‘fair weight’.
being informed that ‘i don’t know what i’m doing/don’t know what I am talking about’, I do not take as hostility directed at me, necessarily.
if we are here to discuss, finding weaknesses with others’ points of view needs to be evaluated; is it to aid them/others?

My comments based on experienced audio ‘artifacts’ (resulting from ‘jitter’ as I claimed) are not worthless.
but to move away from swimming into ‘off topic territory’ (the incredible FiiO M11+, a part I consider an EXCEPTIONAL transport); if anyone wants to discuss what ‘artifacts’ I was hearing, that would build up to ‘higher levels’ in reoccurrence, (the ones I’ve known as ‘jitter’, for decades), can take a punt at discussing that.

I do not feel ANY of this is necessary as the present firmware, freshly flashed, has removed all reoccurences from happening.. I have had the player on loop for days now and it is perfect.
Previously it could barely play five songs before ‘needing’ a reboot.

problem is sorted. why anyone needs denounce my findings (/me) I am not sure.

I'm not trying to convert you to USB. In fact - I wasn't aware that you weren't using USB when I posted. I originally replied because you seemed to use 'jitter' as a catch all culprit for all problems, when it's more nuanced than that. I used USB as an example because it's quite unlikely that jitter would cause data errors on USB, and as it's asynchronous, jitter can be quite effectively eliminated. Some of the other issues you described, such as pops and crackles
As you use coax, I see your concern with jitter; it's synchronous and would benefit from a stable source. But, for those people who use USB, the 'quality of the 1s and 0s' from any device which does bit perfect is probably going to be indistinguishable from the Fiio - I certainly don't hear any difference using the Fiio as a transport, but that doesn't mean to say that I don't think it's worth having as a DAP.

Your proposal to test USB cables is interesting, however I think the example I gave of an incorrectly implemented USB device which would crash with a single bit error showed how reliable USB data transfer is. This was using normal certified USB cables - One of the things I like about USB is that it's ubiquitous and the physical and data transfer layers are well standardised, so I can buy something which is certified and have some assurance that it will work.
In the late 80s I had my first job, working for DEC, where I did a lot of testing of cables using a time-domain reflectometer, and got to see the reflections and scatter caused by things like impedance mismatches, damage and unterminated cables. Because of that I haven't ever been very keen on spdif; the phono connectors probably aren't impedance matched, 3.5mm spdif connectors almost aren't, and who knows if terminating resistors are used.