[michaelgordon]

Since getting my new cans and this BTR5, ive gotten the bug again and looking at whats about upgrade wise, only a few days after getting these!

I have been looking at the Senn HD660s & Audeze LCD2 classics, im guessing the BTR5 wont get the best out of them so started looking at dac/amps but never really dabbled in them, i had a mojo and a HA2 at one point a few years ago but thats about it. So started looking at DAPS and the M11 and R6 pro would these be significatly better than the phone/BTR5 combo in dac mode, im not bothering with bluetooth any more..

my question, would i really benefit going this way as i only really listen to CDs ripped into FLAC and occasionally spotify, im thinking about Tidal. I'm enjoying the HD599 through the BTR5 but i know there is better out there but would i hear it?

 

[Hooga]

Since getting my new cans and this BTR5, ive gotten the bug again and looking at whats about upgrade wise, only a few days after getting these!

What's bug ?

So started looking at DAPS and the M11 and R6 pro would these be significatly better than the phone/BTR5 combo in dac mode

R6Pro is 3 leagues above BTR5 as a dac-amp (pricing included ofc).
Only talking about power, R6Pro outputs 750mW per channel @ 32Ohm impedance on BE, vs BTR5's 240mW
Quality wise it runs circles around most of its direct (dap) competitors. Having personally checked R3, R3Pro, R5 and R6 Pro I would frankly not look elsewhere, in general, for a DAP (choosing amongst the various models depending on budget and requirements).
R6Pro is quite expensive and - not secondarily - heavy, though.

What impedance are your cans ?

 

[michaelgordon]

What's bug ?

What impedance are your cans ?

The headphone / audio gear buying bug.

the LCd2 are 70 Ohm, 660s 150Ohm and the HD5999 which i actually have are 50. Im on 40/60 on low gain for casual listening + or - about 5 from this.

 

[Hooga]

I hadn't caught the joke

On your point, my humble suggestions follow.

Firstly, given your info you do not seem to have any power upgrade need.
Going for a DAP vs phone+BTR5 is a pure apriori choice about the general device format.

In terms of which model to choose, again given your info regarding your cans, powerwise you wuold be just about content with an R3 Pro, which has +-15% less amping power than BTR5 therefore more then enough for you.

The reason why I recommend it is that in my personal view it's just a gem.
Hardware wise it's on par or above other brand's models. Dual CS43131, good battery, and all the usual specs like DSD up to 256, PCM up to 32/384, bla bla.
Most importantly, on even or better hw conditions, is that software wise Hiby Music is to me hands down the absolute best music player sw in the league of the hard-bundled, non-replaceable ones.
All this in 95 grams.

In terms of price/features the R5 is probably an even better value as, in addition to what R5Pro has, it gives you
- full android on board = the possibility to add "one or two" (not more!) third party apps if you wish (e.g. Neutron if you want to go the hypertech way)
- DLNA Client Controller capability (vs mere DLNA Client target on the R3Pro)
- twice the amping power, just in case...
the downsides, price apart:
- BT4.2 vs 5.0 but who cares about that right?
- 4.4 bal connector instead of the usual 2.5
- 160grams vs 95

All of the above said, one important thing should be added and is attention to specific pairing. But this you will only discover by actually trying.
Just an example: some time ago I spent some time with a pair of FH7, an R3Pro and an R6Pro. Same song files on both.
Put them up on the R3Pro, press play. Fantastic delivery. I mean it.
Put them up on the R6Pro, listen to the very same songs. No comparison. An unbelievable further quantity of detail.
Did the same trick with a pair of E4000. Almost zero difference while passing from R3Pro and R6Pro.

Good luck

 

[michaelgordon]

Really appreciate your in depth post @Hooga id looked at but not really considered the R3 pro as i didnt think it would be powerful enough to drive the 660s or the classics, if im reading right would the BTR5 be powerful enough to drive them if the R3 has less power i could save some cash not getting a player and fund the headphones but i do like the idea of keeping phone separate.

Looks like i cant get a R3 pro in the UK at the moment and the R5 is the same price as the Fiio M11 and id like to stick to that budget £400 ish.

Having said all of that ive been listening with the BTR5 and HD599s and listened to the blackening by machine head and its never sounded better even when i had Oppo PM3s, Audeze SINE and a mojo/phone or Cayin N6.

 

[Hooga]

Really appreciate your in depth post @Hooga id looked at but not really considered the R3 pro as i didnt think it would be powerful enough to drive the 660s or the classics, if im reading right would the BTR5 be powerful enough to drive them if the R3 has less power i could save some cash not getting a player and fund the headphones but i do like the idea of keeping phone separate.

Looks like i cant get a R3 pro in the UK at the moment and the R5 is the same price as the Fiio M11 and id like to stick to that budget £400 ish.

Having said all of that ive been listening with the BTR5 and HD599s and listened to the blackening by machine head and its never sounded better even when i had Oppo PM3s, Audeze SINE and a mojo/phone or Cayin N6.

BTR5 is indeed a hell of a powerful toy, especially for its size.
In the area of "small dacs for phone", the sole upgrade I see around to BTR5 is E1DA 9038SG3.

I myself like you am actually eyeing a DAP to directly-upgrade my antique X3-III after the "diversion" I took with a BTR5 recently
I think I'll get an R3Pro, not sure yet. My "hungriest" beast to drive is Final E5000, and i tested it more than OK on it so I'm fine. Got no overears.

By the way 400 pounds for an R5 seems too much.
It's $299 on Hiby's direct shop. Ok add shipping and duties, 400 quids still sound odd.

 

[michaelgordon]

id not looked direct, your right, even with fees only £288 or £190 for the Red R3, which i really like the look

 

[Hooga]

id not looked direct, your right, even with fees only £288 or £190 for the Red R3, which i really like the look

Watch out: R3 is different than R3Pro. The latter is the good one. (R3 was good too, but "surpassed" now)

 

[eclein]

My new toy makes my Audeze SINE light up and sound great...finally! Lots of new power increases in my recent gear, the BTR5’s arrival yesterday was my biggest as far as SINE cans go. Plenty of power on high gain, easily makes me smile as my SINES have always been beasts to get going and open up....love this thing. Highly recommended to my friends this thing cruises and I haven’t even used the software options available to compliment it and think I’ll enjoy it just fine like this! I’m sending my FIIO M6 to my son so he can enjoy it like I did.

 

[archy121]

So I bought this USB C splitter from AE hoping I could connect BTR5 to LGV30* via usb and keep it charging - Didn’t work.


Anyone come across a working solution ?

* Yep USB BTR5 is better than LG V30 to my ears. In fact for me BT LDAC combined with Balanced OUT is better than LG V30 with single out.

Only time I now bother to use LG v30 directly with headphones is when listening to above 24/96 material like DSD Tidal MQA.

 

[Kentajalli]

So I bought this USB C splitter from AE hoping I could connect BTR5 to LGV30* via usb and keep it charging - Didn’t work.


Anyone come across a working solution ?

* Yep USB BTR5 is better than LG V30 to my ears. In fact for me BT LDAC combined with Balanced OUT is better than LG V30 with single out.

Only time I now bother to use LG v30 directly with headphones is when listening to above 24/96 material like DSD Tidal MQA

https://www.ebay.co.uk/vod/FetchOrderDetails?itemId=254571942130&transactionId=2616420041015
this one does. it charges the phone only though.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1loAAOSw5uZekbFh/s-l400.jpg
Also, I believe V30 is capable of Upto 2X DSD itself. it is not limited to 24/96.
furthermore, it has wireless charging, so with a wireless charger you wouldn't need a splitter .
perhaps you need a more capable player to get the best out of your V30, specially if it sounds worse than the dongle.

 

[archy121]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/vod/FetchOrderDetails?itemId=254571942130&transactionId=2616420041015
this one does. it charges the phone only though.
https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1loAAOSw5uZekbFh/s-l400.jpg
Also, I believe V30 is capable of Upto 2X DSD itself. it is not limited to 24/96.
furthermore, it has wireless charging, so with a wireless charger you wouldn't need a splitter .
perhaps you need a more capable player to get the best out of your V30, specially if it sounds worse than the dongle.

Yes V30 can go higher than 24/96 but I prefer to use the BTR5 up to this limit of LDAC. I find the Balanced out combined with LDAC is equally good if not better than using the V30 DAC. Plus there is convenience of being wireless. I believe the BTR5‘s Balanced output is making a big difference to the sound.

Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way. This is why i am looking into a device to allow playback and charging of both simultaneously. I have a wireless charger but it would be more practical to use a wired solution and be able to move the phone around.V30 is actually my dedicated MP rather than a phone.

The V30 is rooted to run in high impedance mode all the time and I use the UAPP as the main player app. I think that’s good as it gets.
I’m using it with DM6 on Balanced out & FidelioX2. V30 offers great sound quality and best of all it offers full MQA unfolding and a battery that lasts well. Even so, up to 24/96 quality I prefer the wireless convenience and sound from the BTR5.

My two biggest wishes for BTR5 would be full MQA unfolding support and improved battery.
(@FiiO hint)

 

[Hooga]

Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way.
(@FiiO hint)

This sounds odd to me. Are you perhaps leaving Charge = ON on the BTR5?

Per my direct experience, BTR5's battery lasts +- 4hours (a tad less actually, more 3h50) when
- playing a mixsture of 16/44 and 24/96 flacs
- connected to source via USB
- Charge=OFF,
- balanced output is used, approx 30/60 vol level.

When Charge = OFF, the source is not taxed for power at all.

So unless you are using some hyper-consuming features on your phone's music player (e.g. Neutron's Oversampling) you should not experience any significant higher power drain from your phone vs playing without the BTR attached.

 

[FiiO]

Yes V30 can go higher than 24/96 but I prefer to use the BTR5 up to this limit of LDAC. I find the Balanced out combined with LDAC is equally good if not better than using the V30 DAC. Plus there is convenience of being wireless. I believe the BTR5‘s Balanced output is making a big difference to the sound.

Of course using the USB to BTR5 with balanced out is even better to my ears. Unfortunately both the phone and BTR5 battery drains too fast connected this way. This is why i am looking into a device to allow playback and charging of both simultaneously. I have a wireless charger but it would be more practical to use a wired solution and be able to move the phone around.V30 is actually my dedicated MP rather than a phone.

The V30 is rooted to run in high impedance mode all the time and I use the UAPP as the main player app. I think that’s good as it gets.
I’m using it with DM6 on Balanced out & FidelioX2. V30 offers great sound quality and best of all it offers full MQA unfolding and a battery that lasts well. Even so, up to 24/96 quality I prefer the wireless convenience and sound from the BTR5.

My two biggest wishes for BTR5 would be full MQA unfolding support and improved battery.
(@FiiO hint)

Thanks for your feedback. But the MQA support may not be added for the BTR5. We will try to add the support in our later DAC product. Stay tuned.
Best regards

 

[Hooga]

But the MQA support may be added for the BTR5.

Before adding new features, you should fix bugs maybe? E.g. have the internal EQ work on USB and possibly LDAC connection ?