[Chris Kaoss]

Yes, of course BT is lossy? For casual listening (not critical listening), can you tell the difference between wired or LDAC? I can’t but that maybe just me. I only use my BTR5 for casual listening, and I appreciate my phone not being tethered to my BTR5. But that is just me.

+1
Just for music listening and enjoyment bluetooth is really good these days.
For serious listening there's other equipment.

 

[HipHopScribe]

But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no inherent, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended. The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way. They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better. There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand. I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different. I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.

My understanding is that the signal path for the single-ended output only utilizes one DAC on the BTR5 rather than using both DACs. This might account for any difference in sound quality between the two outputs. I agree that there is no inherent reason the balanced output should sound better, it seems like an intentional design decision might have made the difference here. Apparently the BTR3K uses both DACs for the single-ended output, so I'm curious whether or not it has the same subjective disparity in quality between single-ended and balanced that some have noticed with the BTR5.

 

[carpler]

Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?

 

[iscorpio71]

Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?

Hello,

I have the same cable and it is a good choice. Amazon cables are great quality in my opinion.

Best

 

[IEManiac]

Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.

The Kirin 980 in my Huawei Mate 20 X supports LDAC, etc.

 

[IEManiac]

Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!

Technically 'balanced' has a 6dB noise advantage over single-ended, but whether you can hear it is questionable since these devices, even in single ended mode, are very quiet already, certainly below the threshold of human perception. Balanced will also have double the output resistance (not good, lower is better). Again, Crosstalk (the technical term for stereo channel separation) is also very low in single ended mode, lower than the threshold of human perception. So, all the|your claims about the superiority of balanced need to be taken with a sack of salt.

 

[szore]

Technically 'balanced' has a 6dB noise advantage over single-ended, but whether you can hear it is questionable since these devices, even in single ended mode, are very quiet already, certainly below the threshold of human perception. Balanced with also have double the output resistance (not good, lower is better). Again, Crosstalk (the technical term for stereo separation) is also very low in single ended mode, lower than the threshold of human perception. So, all the|your claims about the superiority of balanced need to be taken with a sack of salt.

No, you are right, Not superior, but different. That's what I meant when I said 3.5 has its own sound that is more musical

 

[hmscott]

My understanding is that the signal path for the single-ended output only utilizes one DAC on the BTR5 rather than using both DACs. This might account for any difference in sound quality between the two outputs. I agree that there is no inherent reason the balanced output should sound better, it seems like an intentional design decision might have made the difference here. Apparently the BTR3K uses both DACs for the single-ended output, so I'm curious whether or not it has the same subjective disparity in quality between single-ended and balanced that some have noticed with the BTR5.

AFAIK, it's actually the BTR5 unbalanced / SE 3.5mm output that's using 1 DAC / AMP and the BTR5 Balanced 2.5mm output that's using 2 DAC/AMP's, 1 independent DAC / AMP per side.

That's why the balanced output of the BTR5 is about 10 volume setting steps "hotter" than the SE output, at least I need to turn down the volume 10 steps to match the loudness when moving from BTR5 unbalanced 3.5mm to balanced output 2.5mm.

The BTR3k does it a bit differently and so the BTR3 unbalanced SE 3.5mm output is closer to the same output as the BTR3k Balanced 2.5mm output, but the BTR3k is still "hotter" out the balanced output. At least my SendyAudio Aiva's can max out the volume setting on the BTR3k unbalanced SE 3.5mm output but I can't do that same trick when connected to the 2.5mm balanced output, the BTR3k gets too loud near max volume and I have to back off more than a few steps from maximum volume setting.

Yes, the BTR3k 2.5mm can also drive higher power demanding full over the head / over the ear headphones. But, the BTR5 2.5mm sounds much better to me than the BTR3k when loaded down with the SendyAudio Aiva's power demands.

Looking for a cable usb-c to usb-c to connect the btr5 to my phone, I found this one mentioned in this thread many posts ago:
https://www.amazon.it/dp/B01LONPUM4/ref=twister_B06XT2FR5Q?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1
Someone can tell me if is a good choice?
There is something better (but in this price range, or only little more expensive)?

I'm using 2 different data cables, one short one for Samsung S20 Ultra (was Note 10+) to BTR5 / BTR3k, and one long one for PC to BTR5/BTR3k:

DD TC05 Type C to Type C Audio Data Decoding Cable for FiiO K3/BTR1K/M9/M6 10 cm
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07PJZBYVH

Anker 6' PowerLine+ USB-C to USB-A Cable - Red
https://www.target.com/p/anker-6-39-powerline-usb-c-to-usb-a-cable-red/-/A-76625655
https://www.amazon.com/Anker-Powerline-Durability-Samsung-MacBook/dp/B01LNAAEJ2

Note that the TC05 short cable is "directional", only passes data in one direction, so make sure you have the arrows pointing OUT the source and INTO the BTR5 / BTR3k. I first hooked it up backwards and thought the cable was dead, then I noticed the arrows.

 

[IEManiac]

No, you are right, Not superior, but different. That's what I meant when I said 3.5 has its own sound that is more musical

We can safely conclude that we are at best in no-effective-difference or, at worst, hair-splitting territory.

 

[lucasd]

First of all, I find it slightly funny that somebody that have no idea about electronics or DSP complaints about settings.

So I give here very brief intro:
lowpass filter - filter designed to filter out digital conversion artefacts, in case of science and measurements Sharp roll-off is best. However, it may have the highest possible pre-ringing artefacts. Any other is some kind of compromise and is a matter of debate, the default on fiio was said to give most pleasing sound (fast apo 1).
In either case the difference is small and will be heard mostly on badly mastered tracks or some square waves.
In additions, somebody said that those filter are not measurable on BTR5, so whether there is some error in implementation or simply effect is negligible they are simply there. I would say use sharp filter or default one.

Balanced output- technically in powerful amp there would be very small difference, excluding crosstalk & noise/ THD (which are already here very good on unbalanced).
However, balanced output has much higher power output 240mW vs 80mW. So higher volume is possible, but also higher temporary power output is possible, which would improve dynamics. Please consider that good desktop headphone dac will have power of over 1000mW (e.g. Magni has 2.4W).
Easiest analogy is two cars both with the same max speed, but one accelerate like tesla other other diesel SUV

 

[megabigeye]

First of all, I find it slightly funny that somebody that have no idea about electronics or DSP complaints about settings.

So I give here very brief intro:
lowpass filter - filter designed to filter out digital conversion artefacts, in case of science and measurements Sharp roll-off is best. However, it may have the highest possible pre-ringing artefacts. Any other is some kind of compromise and is a matter of debate, the default on fiio was said to give most pleasing sound (fast apo 1).
In either case the difference is small and will be heard mostly on badly mastered tracks or some square waves.
In additions, somebody said that those filter are not measurable on BTR5, so whether there is some error in implementation or simply effect is negligible they are simply there. I would say use sharp filter or default one.

Balanced output- technically in powerful amp there would be very small difference, excluding crosstalk & noise/ THD (which are already here very good on unbalanced).
However, balanced output has much higher power output 240mW vs 80mW. So higher volume is possible, but also higher temporary power output is possible, which would improve dynamics. Please consider that good desktop headphone dac will have power of over 1000mW (e.g. Magni has 2.4W).
Easiest analogy is two cars both with the same max speed, but one accelerate like tesla other other diesel SUV

Is this comment directed at me? If so, I think you're missing the nature of my complaints, which were largely philosophical in nature. I'm more interested in why the balanced connection and DSP filters are included, rather than how they work technically. Not that the technical part isn't interesting, but, as you point out, I don't have the technical proficiency to hold a meaningful conversation about it.

 

[Tristy]

Received the BTR5 today and quite honestly, a £90 DAC has no business sounding this good listening via balanced and wired DAC mode mostly (wireless also sounds very good) but it’s really got me excited for where the industry is going if FiiO is making something that sounds this good for this price. Well done FIIO! I’m a believer.

 

[d73b3e]

This is my first "amp" and I did purchase a 2.5mm tripowin to pair with FH1s. Amazingly, I have heard more "artifacts" than before. Now that to me, the "original" intent of the musicians is actually more hiss, more noise, more pops/clicks/crackles lol (I did verify those with another "amp-less" setup and hear the same if I turn up the volume to a discomfort level).
My first impression: this dongle is more suitable to a pair of cans than IEMs

 

[jsmiller58]

This is my first "amp" and I did purchase a 2.5mm tripowin to pair with FH1s. Amazingly, I have heard more "artifacts" than before. Now that to me, the "original" intent of the musicians is actually more hiss, more noise, more pops/clicks/crackles lol (I did verify those with another "amp-less" setup and hear the same if I turn up the volume to a discomfort level).
My first impression: this dongle is more suitable to a pair of cans than IEMs

Possibly, but I have many IEMs, some very sensitive, and don‘t hear any hiss on the BTR5’s 2.5mm or 3.5mm outputs. On the other hand I have an R6 Pro DAP and that hisses like a bag of snakes with very sensitive IEMs.

 

[carpler]

Sorry if I come back to a question I have already asked ...
Looking for good headphones "portable" and with balanced cable I found the V-Monk Lite, but with a balanced 2.5 plug only the 120 ohm version remained.
Does BTR5 manage them well? Do you consider it a valid option?
I own both the V-Monk Lite and the Plus (with 3.5SE plug), but I prefer the sound of the Plus.
Also for this reason I am doubtful whether to proceed with the purchase or not.
The fact is that I currently have no alternatives for balanced (not IEM) ...