[HipHopScribe]

Thanks for that. Though those kind of present more questions than they answer. "Stronger" versus "punchier" bass; "clear" versus "natural;" "emphasized bass" versus "powerful sound." Yeesh. It's enough to make my head spin. I can't imagine if I hadn't been reading audiophile jargon for the last decade plus! I still stand by my contention that there should just be one option that makes it sound as it's supposed to sound.

Anyway, I'm complaining, but I do appreciate your post. Also, thanks for not just getting irritated by my irritated post.

If people don't care to read audiophile jargon or can't hear the difference between the filters than they can just stick with the default filter or pick any filter really. It's not like any sound "bad" and there's not really one that sounds "best," it's subjective. Fiio adds the ability to change them because it's a feature a lot of audiophiles want to have. If you don't want to change the filter or figure out which you like best, just don't

 

[szore]

THE FOLLOWING POST WAS MADE WHILE IRRITABLE! PLEASE TAKE WHAT I SAY WITH A GRAIN OF SALT!

...Here are some further impressions:

• single-ended still sounds very good to me… I thought maybe I could hear a slight difference vs. balanced, but it’s one of those things that I’ll only hear if I’m really listening for it. If I’m just enjoying the music, I’ll never notice. Honestly, I’m not convinced there’s any difference at all. I’ll give it more time still. (I had to stop listening in balanced since my UM Pro 50 are my only 'phones with a balanced cable and my ears were starting to get sore.)
• Drives my UM Pro 50 and PM-3 nicely in single-ended; not enough power for my DT 1990.
• The FiiO app still seems awful. It’s bad enough that I don’t feel like getting to know it. Maybe later, when I’m in a better mood.

• I realize now that the loudness/power estimate feature is just a silly gimmick with nearly no meaning… it doesn’t specify whether that SPL or power is for 2.5 or 3.5, high gain or low. Without being able to account for those things, the numbers it spits out are completely meaningless.
• Why on God’s green earth does it need to announce to me that the BTR5 is connected when I go into Bluetooth settings?! I know! That’s why I’m trying to adjust its settings!

• Further, why does it sometimes announce that with a text chime that fades my music... But sometimes it doesn't make that chime?!

• Why are there always two icons at the top of my screen, one grey, one red?
• Why when I first open the app is there a mini-player style window at the top, blocking access to the settings? And why does closing that window close the entire #^%^%^ app?!?!
• What do each of the “low pass filters” actually do? I couldn’t really hear much difference between them and there’s no explanation, just cute squiggly lines. The ES100’s different filters were easy to differentiate, these ones are not. And why do we need these different filters at all? Why can’t there be one filter: the one that sounds best?

• Battery life is really bad. I think I listened for two hours and it was claiming 50%. Of course, that’s assuming that’s accurate… which I somehow doubt.

• …of course, then I listened for another hour after charging it and it still says 100%.

• Having weird, extremely annoying interruptions when using USB on Android. Don’t know if it’s the BTR5, UAPP, the FiiO app, SoundAlive (I didn’t even know that existed till it crashed), or some other Android problem. It could also be something I was doing, since I was changing settings. It would stop every couple of minutes till I closed UAPP and un-/re-plugged the BTR5, at which point things seemed to function normally. I'll withhold judgment on this particular fault until it happens again.
• So far, other than sound, I’m a little underwhelmed. The battery stinks, the app stinks, the firmware kinda stinks. Sounds good, though. And it’s tiny and looks nice. I’ll probably end up keeping it, but for now I’m feeling a little annoyed by the experience.
• I’m somewhat hopeful that FiiO could fix some of the problems with firmware/software updates (app, battery life, battery gauge, probably some other things, too)… but knowing FiiO, I don’t entirely expect them to do that. They’d rather come out with the BTR5K.

I also realize that I have my usual spring allergies, which causes my ears to be a little stuffy, which could affect my ability to hear differences between 2.5mm/3.5mm and filters.

I had it plugged into computer as dac, and had my Logitech control pod plugged into it while watching a movie, and once in a while the sound stopped. Do not use any of the apps for music, just MediaMonkey or Hiby player. Sounds fantastic and I love it. Don't know what all the drama is about, I guess people have different expectations.

 

[carpler]

Yup, I had read your comments, and I was in the middle of adding more details to that post but I got distracted, so I am back now adding more details.

In Developer Options you can view "Bluetooth Audio Codec" supported options without a BT device connected, at least I am able to view it with BT off on my Note 10+ running

So, IDK if this is encouraging, but here's a participation Q&A for you, does that "Bluetooth Audio Codec dialog on your Honor 8 Pro look like this?:

That view is from an Honor 8 Pro in 08/2018, so perhaps an update added LDAC by now?

If not, try clicking "Enable Optional Codecs" - IDK if it will show additional Codec's, or take another action - like loading additional Codecs you've installed - I haven't dug into that, but it would help if you can Answer back as to what you see now before I start looking around for more details.

That image is from:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/honor-8-pro/help/ldac-honor-8-pro-t3833087

Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).

 

[IEManiac]

Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).

Headphone jacks these days can be quite good. And BT codecs are still lossy.

Fiio should include a usb-c to usb-c cable in the box.

 

[szore]

Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).

What ear/head phones are you using?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

Finally my BTR5 has arrived (after a wait of almost 2 months).
Unfortunately I discovered that my mobile phone (the Honor 8 Pro, in fact) does not support the LDAC codec, despite having been updated to Android 9.1 in the meantime.
When the BTR5 is connected to the mobile phone, the screen reported by hmscott does not show the LDAC codec and the last two items regarding the optional codecs are grayed out.
Using the aptX HD the sound is worse than the headphone output of the mobile phone itself ...
I have not yet managed to connect the mobile phone to the BTR5 as USB DAC, since I do not have an USB-C to USB-C cable (I have to find one: I will look for suggestions in this thread).

Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.

 

[megabigeye]

If people don't care to read audiophile jargon or can't hear the difference between the filters than they can just stick with the default filter or pick any filter really. It's not like any sound "bad" and there's not really one that sounds "best," it's subjective. Fiio adds the ability to change them because it's a feature a lot of audiophiles want to have. If you don't want to change the filter or figure out which you like best, just don't

Yes, I have just been leaving it on the default filter (well, I think it's the default, it doesn't specifically say whether it is or not). It's like going to the store to pick up laundry detergent: you're standing there in the aisle, faced with a whole row of detergents, each of them looks similar, but makes separate claims, cost different amounts, are different sizes, different brands, smell different; maybe with all these choices you still can't find exactly what you're looking for. But why are there so many choices? If there were fewer choices it's doubtful anybody would give a damn which detergent they picked so long as it gets their laundry clean and doesn't smell disgusting. It's presenting a false sense of choice where that isn't really necessary.
Anyway, this is very much a first world problem, I realize. I'm not actually upset about it. Like you said, just leave it on default or pick any that I don't hate.

I had it plugged into computer as dac, and had my Logitech control pod plugged into it while watching a movie, and once in a while the sound stopped. Do not use any of the apps for music, just MediaMonkey or Hiby player. Sounds fantastic and I love it. Don't know what all the drama is about, I guess people have different expectations.

Yes, I think I'm going to just stick to UAPP for music, and it does sound fantastic. Even over Bluetooth it sounds great.

I'd like to claim that there was no drama, but I was definitely being a little dramatic yesterday. /sheepish Most of my complaints were about the FiiO Music app, but if I'm not using that, those problems go away. So far the Control app seems more than adequate for its purpose.

Other than that and the battery, the rest of my complaints are mostly philosophical/ethical. Why is there a 2.5mm balanced connection at all?
If balanced sounds better than single-ended, why is that the case? It's not as if balanced inherently sounds better than single-ended. If balanced and single-ended sound the same, then why include the balanced jack at all (especially if it's just going to confuse the customer)? If balanced is only included for convenience, it'd be just as convenient to include a balanced adapter, plus that could potentially save customers money.
Maybe there some good reason that they included both jacks, but my guess is that it's to pander to audiophiles' misunderstandings and sell as many units as possible. FiiO, of course, is under no obligation to make the best product possible, nor the product that I most desire... But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

Anyway. These are all small potatoes, I know. The BTR5 does sound great, I just wish the battery lasted longer and that I didn't feel obligated to buy a new cable in order to (potentially) get the most out of it.

 

[szore]

Yes, I have just been leaving it on the default filter (well, I think it's the default, it doesn't specifically say whether it is or not). It's like going to the store to pick up laundry detergent: you're standing there in the aisle, faced with a whole row of detergents, each of them looks similar, but makes separate claims, cost different amounts, are different sizes, different brands, smell different; maybe with all these choices you still can't find exactly what you're looking for. But why are there so many choices? If there were fewer choices it's doubtful anybody would give a damn which detergent they picked so long as it gets their laundry clean and doesn't smell disgusting. It's presenting a false sense of choice where that isn't really necessary.
Anyway, this is very much a first world problem, I realize. I'm not actually upset about it. Like you said, just leave it on default or pick any that I don't hate.


Yes, I think I'm going to just stick to UAPP for music, and it does sound fantastic. Even over Bluetooth it sounds great.

I'd like to claim that there was no drama, but I was definitely being a little dramatic yesterday. /sheepish Most of my complaints were about the FiiO Music app, but if I'm not using that, those problems go away. So far the Control app seems more than adequate for its purpose.

Other than that and the battery, the rest of my complaints are mostly philosophical/ethical. Why is there a 2.5mm balanced connection at all?
If balanced sounds better than single-ended, why is that the case? It's not as if balanced inherently sounds better than single-ended. If balanced and single-ended sound the same, then why include the balanced jack at all (especially if it's just going to confuse the customer)? If balanced is only included for convenience, it'd be just as convenient to include a balanced adapter, plus that could potentially save customers money.
Maybe there some good reason that they included both jacks, but my guess is that it's to pander to audiophiles' misunderstandings and sell as many units as possible. FiiO, of course, is under no obligation to make the best product possible, nor the product that I most desire... But that doesn't mean that I have to like it.

Anyway. These are all small potatoes, I know. The BTR5 does sound great, I just wish the battery lasted longer and that I didn't feel obligated to buy a new cable in order to (potentially) get the most out of it.

Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!

 

[megabigeye]

Balance and unbalanced do not sound the same. Balanced output is cleaner and the stereo separation is more defined giving a better defined soundstage and image placement. Also many people (myself included) only have 2.5 cable terminations. Balanced output also tends to have more power output (not sure why this is the case). This is good for me when I am using my CL2 planar, which tend to love higher voltage. Sometimes 3.5 out may be preferred; it can give music a warmer, bigger, more generous sound over balanced, after all this is music not surgery!

But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no inherent, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended. The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way. They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better. There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand. I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different. I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.

 

[szore]

But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no inherent, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended. The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way. They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better. There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand. I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different. I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.

Relax, we're just talking, no one is arguing, its what we do here in the forums, nitpick things to death! The technical difference between bal and unbal is balanced has an independent ground for left and right channels, unbalanced shares a common ground.

 

[megabigeye]

Relax, we're just talking, no one is arguing, its what we do here in the forums, nitpick things to death! The technical difference between bal and unbal is balanced has an independent ground for left and right channels, unbalanced shares a common ground.

Oh, good. I wasn't arguing and I'm pretty relaxed (currently lying on the couch, listening to some jazz via the BTR5!), but I wasn't sure if you were in the same boat.
Yes, I know that's one difference between balanced and unbalanced, but I don't think that alone would cause I difference in sound.

Here's a question for the thread at large: anybody have a case that fits both IEMs and the BTR5?

 

[szore]

Oh, good. I wasn't arguing and I'm pretty relaxed (currently lying on the couch, listening to some jazz via the BTR5!), but I wasn't sure if you were in the same boat.
Yes, I know that's one difference between balanced and unbalanced, but I don't think that alone would cause I difference in sound.

Here's a question for the thread at large: anybody have a case that fits both IEMs and the BTR5?

https://audio46.com/products/campfire-audio-black-textured-faux-leather-case

 

[carpler]

What ear/head phones are you using?

For this "test" I use my favorite "portable" Koss KSC75. Conntected directly to the phone they sounds good, but with the BTR5 connected via BT and aptX HD the sound is worse...

Maybe the Kirin Chipset of the 8 Pro doesn't support any higher codec, i guess.

Yes I think so...

I test the BTR5 also as a USB DAC connected to my pc and used my modified AKG K701 and the sound is great balanced, muche better than unbalanced.
But I can not use the K701 when I'm "out of the door".
So I'm looking for good headphones balanced.
Yes I know I already made this question, but I don't found a good answer, so I'm trying again.
What I'm looking for:
- balanced headphone
- easily portable (not so big!)
- NO IEM
- budget under 100€

Sound reference (I like in this segment): Koss KSC75, V-Monk Plus
I can consider also something sounding as Grado SR80 (but cheaper!) if they can be easily modified to make them balanced.
No idea?

 

[Chris Kaoss]

But my point is that, so far as I'm aware, there's no inherent, technical reason that balanced should sound better or different (other than louder) than single-ended. The only reason that balanced might be better/different is because it's designed that way. They could also design it so that they sound the same or so that single-ended sounds better. There's also the problem that louder invariably sounds preferable than softer, so the louder output will always sound "better."

Anyway, I don't want to turn this into an argument and I don't want to get into a technical discussion that I don't fully understand. I'm not even certain yet whether the two outputs are the same or different. I'd have to do more testing, which I don't really enjoy.

You're absolutly right.
We all do enjoy the louder sound output out of the 2.5mm jack on the Btr5, or this belongs to the more power out of the balanced output, which suits well to some/most headphones.

 

[jsmiller58]

Headphone jacks these days can be quite good. And BT codecs are still lossy.

Fiio should include a usb-c to usb-c cable in the box.

Yes, of course BT is lossy. For casual listening (not critical listening), can you tell the difference between wired or LDAC? I can’t but that may be just me. I only use my BTR5 for casual listening, and I appreciate my phone not being tethered to my BTR5. But that is just me.