[mdbuck]

Or buy the performance version without tubes. I did this as I already had lots of NOS 6sn7’s.

May I ask where you purchased your Envy without tubes? I would like to do the same, and am in the U.S.

 

[JTbbb]

May I ask where you purchased your Envy without tubes? I would like to do the same, and am in the U.S.

Audiobarn, here in the UK.

 

[robo24]

Given everyone here's apparent propensity for tube rolling with this amp, is there much need to pay the extra for the Performance Edition?

Certainly not worth it for the tubes. I'm literally selling these for $150 with no takers and they aren't hugely better than the stock PSVanes in the standard model, though more tubey sounding. The tube upgrade maybe makes it worth $100 more. If you're someone who hears differences in cables then the wiring might be worth it to you, but I think putting the money towards Elrogs & WE is a much better use of funds.

 

[nwavesailor]

I know it wasn’t worth it to me.

I already had Elrogs and quite a few 6SN7 and other drivers before my pre-ordered Envy arrived.

I can hear differences in top tier tubes but not in copper wire.

If I had ears…….

 

[jlbrach]

I will take the better tubes over the copper way any day

 

[tameral]

Not to be contrarian but I had a standard for several months and then got the performance, as I had that option at minimal cost.

It was a different amp for sure - with the same tubes (I already had WE300B and ER300B at this point).

Most of my driver preferences were thrown out the window and sounded different with the performance (with Susvara). I wouldn't say that the performance sounded better, although to me it sounded better because it was a little more neutral and focused. I could listen to classic 6sn7 tubes that were kind of disappointing and boring (VT-231 Ken rad for example) but all of a sudden they became more engaging. With Susvara - I think if you are getting the standard edition, you probably need to follow the recommendations of the experienced tube rollers in this thread that go for G73r, Cg3, Melz, Elrog MOs etc - because you need that extra edge at least that's how my preferences would lead me. For me WE300B + Melz 1578 - is just delirious sounding and would be so on the standard as well, though on the standard my favorite was ER300B + Melz at the time and I quite dislike that pairing on my performance.

 

[Somatic]

Not to be contrarian but I had a standard for several months and then got the performance, as I had that option at minimal cost.

It was a different amp for sure - with the same tubes (I already had WE300B and ER300B at this point).

Most of my driver preferences were thrown out the window and sounded different with the performance (with Susvara). I wouldn't say that the performance sounded better, although to me it sounded better because it was a little more neutral and focused. I could listen to classic 6sn7 tubes that were kind of disappointing and boring (VT-231 Ken rad for example) but all of a sudden they became more engaging. With Susvara - I think if you are getting the standard edition, you probably need to follow the recommendations of the experienced tube rollers in this thread that go for G73r, Cg3, Melz, Elrog MOs etc - because you need that extra edge at least that's how my preferences would lead me. For me WE300B + Melz 1578 - is just delirious sounding and would be so on the standard as well, though on the standard my favorite was ER300B + Melz at the time and I quite dislike that pairing on my performance.

Did performance sound more detailed? Or slightly brighter?

 

[tameral]

Did performance sound more detailed? Or slightly brighter?

I don't want to add much more to it than say it is more neutral and focused - certainly no need to find the standard inferior, just means you have a different canvas to work with driver / power tube pairings. I suppose I would say with the performance + Susvara that you can have slightly inferior driver tubes and get pretty engaged - across the VT231 line up and some of the other 6sn7 classics. With Susvara I was disappointed with the standard Envy + classic 6sn7s for sure but can enjoy it more with the performance. But with my performance Envy in reality I listen to Melz 1578 + WE300B the most, followed by ER300B and Quad Brimar - so I'm not really using those classic 6sn7s much either. With respect to the 6sn7s - it may because Susvara deserves better and if I ever went to the trouble of plugging in my 6xx or 800s in the Envy a lot of my classic 6sn7s would get more use, just not so much with Susvara. So if you have gone through the trouble of getting these pinnacle driver tubes and power tubes, I don't necessarily see the point of having the performance - but nonetheless it does seem to be more neutral sounding and focused / cleaner / touch more clarity and that can help with those smooshy hazy but lovely holographic 6sn7s, for example - and yes it will change up your preferred driver pairings quite surprisingly. I think it might make WE300B a touch more useful also (but wouldn't really say that about ER300B).

 

[spw1880]

Not to be contrarian but I had a standard for several months and then got the performance, as I had that option at minimal cost.

It was a different amp for sure - with the same tubes (I already had WE300B and ER300B at this point).

Most of my driver preferences were thrown out the window and sounded different with the performance (with Susvara). I wouldn't say that the performance sounded better, although to me it sounded better because it was a little more neutral and focused. I could listen to classic 6sn7 tubes that were kind of disappointing and boring (VT-231 Ken rad for example) but all of a sudden they became more engaging. With Susvara - I think if you are getting the standard edition, you probably need to follow the recommendations of the experienced tube rollers in this thread that go for G73r, Cg3, Melz, Elrog MOs etc - because you need that extra edge at least that's how my preferences would lead me. For me WE300B + Melz 1578 - is just delirious sounding and would be so on the standard as well, though on the standard my favorite was ER300B + Melz at the time and I quite dislike that pairing on my performance.

Thanks for your insight, between the standard and performace edition.

So would i be right to assume that in your experience, considering the performane version envy being the more Linear/clean sound version of the envy amp, that the WE300b with melz 1578 combe is the better match? rather than the Elrog er300b/melz1578 combo?

thank you

 

[tameral]

Thanks for your insight, between the standard and performace edition.

So would i be right to assume that in your experience, considering the performane version envy being the more Linear/clean sound version of the envy amp, that the WE300b with melz 1578 combe is the better match? rather than the Elrog er300b/melz1578 combo?

thank you

I can only tell you that Melz 1578 redeemed my ER300Bs with Susvara on a standard envy / it sounded glorious but the same combo sounded pretty lean and inferior with my performance - it isn't a matter of 'detail' just synergy although performance envy does bring some focus / clarity to some tubes for sure but i'm not saying it scales higher by any means

 

[Somatic]

I can only tell you that Melz 1578 redeemed my ER300Bs with Susvara on a standard envy / it sounded glorious but the same combo sounded pretty lean and inferior with my performance - it isn't a matter of 'detail' just synergy although performance envy does bring some focus / clarity to some tubes for sure but i'm not saying it scales higher by any means

I see what you mean. I for sure would have went performance if it was silver. I have tried better copper headphone cables and have heard a difference but its just different than a huge upgrade or anything. Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[tameral]

Agreed. That being said, I think it is a no-brainer to go for the performance and in general for most tubes it sounds better and leads to easier, more accessible driver / power tube pairings...more "performance".

 

[nwavesailor]

I’m now 1.5 years into my standard Envy.

I am fortunate to pair the Sus w/ Elrog TM + SJ DC4 / ARC6 power supply as well as many good drivers and I’m am thrilled with my Envy.

Would the performance be a step up? Perhaps .

I am with @Somatic and may have gone with the performance version if it were a silver wire upgrade.

Better copper wire (I didn’t care about the tubes) was +$800 a no for me.
I don’t have amazing hearing but if you can hear differences in copper wire then it may be a worthwhile upgrade!!!

 

[jlbrach]

standard with upgraded tubes is outstanding..cant speak to the copper wiring

 

[tameral]

Definitely hope my feedback seemed polite - simply wanted to add my two cents for the lurkers interested in buying an Envy and not for current owners. I agree that a difference is just a difference until that difference is a preference. For lack of a better word - the performance is more ‘transparent’. That being said, all I know is I was pretty unhappy with Envy after several hundred hours of use until I took that same tube collection and ported it over to the performance, and that 800$ difference has meant a great deal to me. I definitely believe that Susvara and Envy are extremely revealing of all components in the chain, including headphone cables - and certainly reveals differences between copper cables. I love my Envy and glad you two do as well. Cheers!