[HOWIE13]

  I have to say, using your warranty after doing such wild modifications does not seem fair to me. 
 

 
Even though my Elise seems to be fine after my use of 6C33C, I consider the warranty void as I have absolutely gone far off of what is 'fair' under warranty. 

 
Feliks Audio's warranty specifically excludes shipping costs and since shipping  from N. America and back is likely to be far more expensive than the repair of a component like a resistor or capacitor it seems likely most buyers outside Europe will prefer to have their amplifier repaired locally anyway. 
 
Also, I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but, in general, in Europe the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that misuse/abuse is the cause of the fault. 
 
In practice, most businesses will give the benefit of the doubt to the customer, to maintain good customer relations, especially where the shipping costs, often more expensive than the repair, are excluded from the warranty anyway.

 

[Suuup]

   
Feliks Audio's warranty specifically excludes shipping costs and since shipping  from N. America and back is likely to be far more expensive than the repair of a component like a resistor or capacitor it seems likely most buyers outside Europe will prefer to have their amplifier repaired locally anyway. 
 
Also, I don't know how it is in other parts of the world but, in general, in Europe the onus is on the manufacturer to prove that misuse/abuse is the cause of the fault. 
 
In practice, most businesses will give the benefit of the doubt to the customer, to maintain good customer relations, especially where the shipping costs, often more expensive than the repair, are excluded from the warranty anyway.

Sure, it's possible that by hiding your misuse, you can get a free repair. As a man with a conscience though, I could never do that myself. Especially not to a small Polish family-owned business. 
 
Quote:

  Thanks partner In fact there were no explosions and it didn't seem to overheat, so I'm still speculating. I kept this 'on the DL' from the Elise thread so they won't attribute this to my recent tube combo creation (which I'm sure wasn't the cause). Man I'll tell ya though with this new setup on the Elise, I've been having by far and wide the best home-audio experience of my life - in a word, I chose "transcendental"!!! It still usable but really needs a fix. I could open it up once I find the right size screwdriver. This $699 OTL tube amp pushes well into summit-fi territory and I really think a lot of you would like it. But I have limited resources and am still hoping someone will offer a hand on this, thanks!

 
Keeping it "on the DL" so we won't attribute this to the frankenstein? 

 

[HOWIE13]

  It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility. 

That's fair enough if the fault is due to misuse but your argument isn't fair to the buyer if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done.

 

[Suuup]

  That's fair enough if the fault is due to misuse but your argument isn't fair to the buyer if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done.

Agree, if the fault is not related to anything the owner has done, of course a repair should be covered under warranty. In this case however, that frankenstein definitely falls under misuse. 

 

[HOWIE13]

  It's not about the looks though. I am fine with people experimenting with stuff and running crazy setups. It's fun. However, when **** starts coming down, you shouldn't expect a Polish amp-making family to pay. Sure, they could probably offer to repair it for a fee, but ultimately, making these (lovely) frankenstein-setups are not 'proper use' of the product, and as such, it's your own responsibility. 

Only if Frankenstein has caused the problem.

 

[HOWIE13]

In reality if I had such a problem, I would send it back, explaining the problem and all the tubes I had used, and then it's up to Feliks-Audio to decide what they want to do.

 

[UntilThen]

  Yeah. Vinyl really sucks. So compressed and lacking in dynamics!!!!
 

 
 
Toni Tennille. I saw her live after she and The Captain stopped appearing together. What a goddess!!! What a life: http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/03/21/toni-tennille-never-cheated-on-captain.html

This is good. I start spinning my LPs again. Wait for it... with a simple but musical combo .... RCA 6SN7gtb and Chatham 6520. Elise can sound amazing with this standard setup.

 

[DecentLevi]

So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. Howie tried this same setup and without any adverse effects. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
 
Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
 
Speaking of community spirit, IMO everything has been driven by the Elise threads and their two quirks: the endless pursuit of the perfect tube combo, and the way we express ourselves about its' sound. For those of you who have been around since the beginning, especially the first Elise thread, you will see countless examples of so-called hyperbole and unreasonable metaphors to explain how great the Elise sounds. But I for one find those the highlight of the Elise threads - using bizarre metaphors, poems and even gross exaggerations to describe the sound of it. I don't find this to be 'unrealistic' or hype, but rather entertaining, helpful or even funny. It's our personality! 

 

 
Next, how is anybody going to say that my 6x power tubes is so outlandish while there are others also with 6 power tubes on a massive adapter with external P/S and non-stock drivers? Seems a little biased to me. My whole pursuit of tube experimentation was from the pioneers of this thread who keep pushing the envelope - I'm just following in you guys' footsteps, and have not done anything that's electrically harmful at all.
 
The point is one of common forum guidelines: respect each other's opinions and don't make statements without proof.

 

[Suuup]

  So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
 
Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
 
Speaking of community spirit, IMO everything has been driven by the Elise threads and their two quirks: the endless pursuit of the perfect tube combo, and the way we express ourselves about its' sound. For those of you who have been around since the beginning, especially the first Elise thread, you will see countless examples of so-called hyperbole and unreasonable metaphors to explain how great the Elise sounds. But I for one find those the highlight of the Elise threads - using bizarre metaphors, poems and even gross exaggerations to describe the sound of it. I don't find this to be 'unrealistic' or hype, but rather entertaining, helpful or even funny. It's our personality! 

 

 
Next, how is anybody going to say that my 6x power tubes is so outlandish while there are others also with 6 power tubes on a massive adapter with external P/S and non-stock drivers? Seems a little biased to me. My whole pursuit of tube experimentation was from the pioneers of this thread who keep pushing the envelope - I'm just following in you guys' footsteps, and have not done anything that's electrically harmful at all.

To be clear, I'm not attacking you, as (to my knowledge anyway) you don't intend to use the warranty. I'm also not talking about the sound at all. You have indeed followed in the footsteps of others -- others I also consider to have voided their warranty. 

 

[HOWIE13]

  So now I guess that the 'cat's out of the bag' on a defect with noise from my Elise in the left channel. But how can you folks say with such assuredness that the problem was caused by the owner? No doubt just because of the height of my most recent tube combo. But this is nothing radical at all, and in fact it's electrically compatible all the way. The only difference electrically between the photo above (which has leaked around with my permission) and the dual 6BL7 and / or 6SN7 setup as powers setup, which is from an official adapter, is that one of the tubes on each side is taken out and replaced for a dual 6J5; which is electrically identical to a single 6SN7 (look it up). The only difference is that one sounds a lot better and is taller. Howie tried this same setup and without any adverse effects. You're judging a book by it's cover and I would definitely say this has absolutely NOTHING in the slightest to do with Frankenstein nor risky experiments. Do you see any wires on top of this setup? And what about the driver tubes - do you see anything awry here? I sure don't - these are the stock tube compliment.
 
Also if I want to describe a sound as mystifying, mind-bending, intergalactic out of body experience or whatever, that's my prerogative. That's the way I experienced it and it's my attempt to put my experience in English words. Hi-fi audio listening is a very personal, subjective experience that can vary from person to person, and is influenced by their own hearing abilities and even mental state and emotions. Have you ever seen me or even Howie  or UT talk down on someone who has expressed they had enjoyed listening to something? I'm sure not aware of that happening and if so that sure wouldn't be very in keeping with the community spirit.
 
Speaking of community spirit, IMO everything has been driven by the Elise threads and their two quirks: the endless pursuit of the perfect tube combo, and the way we express ourselves about its' sound. For those of you who have been around since the beginning, especially the first Elise thread, you will see countless examples of so-called hyperbole and unreasonable metaphors to explain how great the Elise sounds. But I for one find those the highlight of the Elise threads - using bizarre metaphors, poems and even gross exaggerations to describe the sound of it. I don't find this to be 'unrealistic' or hype, but rather entertaining, helpful or even funny. It's our personality! 

 

 
Next, how is anybody going to say that my 6x power tubes is so outlandish while there are others also with 6 power tubes on a massive adapter with external P/S and non-stock drivers? Seems a little biased to me. My whole pursuit of tube experimentation was from the pioneers of this thread who keep pushing the envelope - I'm just following in you guys' footsteps, and have not done anything that's electrically harmful at all.
 
The point is one of common forum guidelines: respect each other's opinions and don't make statements without proof
 
 

 
I, for one, am put off by review hyperbole. Stuff like, 'it sounded like I was right in front of the singer, and  'it was as if I was sitting next to the pianist on his bench'.
 
Well, as I've previously pointed out I would not wish for a face full of singer's spittal showering me, nor could I think of a worse place to appreciate the sound of a grand piano than sitting next to the pianist. The piano is designed for the full flow of it's sound to emanate in a very different direction.
 
We all have our own personalities and ways of expressing ourselves. If some people are irritated by particular posts they can ignore them, or argue against what the post states and not how the poster expresses himself.

 

[HOWIE13]

  To be clear, I'm not attacking you, as (to my knowledge anyway) you don't intend to use the warranty. I'm also not talking about the sound at all. You have indeed followed in the footsteps of others -- others I also consider to have voided their warranty. 

Just to clarify-are you saying that even if the problem is shown to be nothing to do with any tube you would still regard the warranty as void?
 
In other words, once you have done something 'out of the ordinary' you would consider a warranty void under any circumstances whatsoever.
 
Just interested in your viewpoint.

 

[Suuup]

  Just to clarify-are you saying that even if the problem is shown to be nothing to do with any tube you would still regard the warranty as void?
 
In other words, once you have done something 'out of the ordinary' you would consider a warranty void under any circumstances whatsoever.
 
Just interested in your viewpoint.

If you can absolutely prove your frankenstein didn't cause any stress on the system, then sure, you should have you warranty. Saying "it's not over 7A" is not enough. 

 

[pctazhp]

Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
 
As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.

 

[HOWIE13]

  If you can absolutely prove your frankenstein didn't cause any stress on the system, then sure, you should have you warranty. Saying "it's not over 7A" is not enough. 

Agreed..

 

[HOWIE13]

  Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
 
As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.

 

  Seems to me the warranty issue boils down to whether someone would intentionally try to conceal use of the Elise beyond what FA recommends when seeking repair under the warranty. I'm not saying anyone has done that, but I think that is the theoretical issue we have been discussing. To my knowledge there is no "official" adapter. They are made in China by a lady unrelated to FA and have not been approved by FA, just as many of the tubes we use do not fall within those recommended by FA.
 
As for choice of words, if we all justified the words we use by our own particular "personality" then words lose all meaning and effective communication is the loser.

That's true for more extreme use of language and the converse can also apply where we can't express ourselves adequately with English.
 
I also miss with the written word the nuances of vocal expression which can make such a difference to meaning.