[hypnos1]

Agree with Vince. Where should the line be drawn. If we use stock tubes, but heat them externally to increase the lifespan of Elise, should it be allowed?

I'm sorry, but I feel like a lot of people will be excluded.

Put a bit more bluntly, I will probably find elsewhere to post about my tube journey.

 
Hi Suuup....please read my last post re the dangers associated with external PSs - I sincerely hope you never experience the kind of accident that can so easily occur in such cases - I certainly wouldn't want to hear about it in this thread, lol 

....or anywhere!!...

 

[Lord Raven]

I am daily using 12V 2A external heating and adapters with FDD20, ECC31 with adapters, EL3N with adapters. I sometimes feel like I am robbed, I spent more than the amp itself to improve its sound. 
 
I have almost quit visiting the page, one day something is top notch, next day it is found in the bin. This is too much tube rolling and drama attached to it. The excitement of telling it to others is gone. The time is near when someone would open Elise and start doing internal mods and would say, this is magic, sparkles, stardust, just add this 200$ capacitor and you don't need anything else LOL 
 
Safe listening guys, honestly, you don't need 200$ tubes to enjoy the music!
 
Cheers to all the lucky ones 

LR

 

[connieflyer]

As far as the manufacture is concerned, these people here are doing alot of R&D for them, to see what will work, what won't and where they should take the next iteration of Elise amp, without spending a dime.  Anyone that uses electricity is at risk at some point. When I was a flight electronics tech, I had to play with amperage that would fry you instantly, aka Magnetron tubes, in oil baths to prevent arching of the leads, and this is airborne will the plane is pitching up and down.  Not fun but if you are aware of the dangers, are careful, and follow good practice, I see no problem with using external transformers.  Is there a danger, goes with out saying, but it should be up to the individual as to what they do.  If people only want to use the amp stock, by all means, if they want information on different tubes, there is already an Elise tube rolling thread, they can just as easily go there. Common sense has to rule your life, you don't need to be told, that don't put things in the electrical outlet or you may get a shock.  I was told as a child not to do it, I did it anyway, and learned an abject lesson from it. People today seem to have the need for total protection, want to ride a bicycle, you have to wear a helmet for your own good.  Play street hockey, pads are a must.  Life is not meant to be lived in total protection and supervision.  Who knows, Feliks company may read these threads and say, you know, if we put a better and bigger transformer in the Elise, at a slightly higher price, may get more people involved.  Maybe even offer, high quality adapters, for some combinations.  You all are free to do as you want with this thread, if it changes to what has been suggested, I for one, won't bother with either.  I will go my own way.  This thread is active and alive, not dead like so many others. Still gains to be made for the Elise which is a good thing.  Products and life doesn't remain stagnant, it is the variety that makes it interesting. You want to read about everyone who gets a new Elise and how nice it is, it will get old in a hurry.  Case in point log on to the Senn 650 headphone forum, very active, and all the same, just different people saying the same thing over and over again for years.  That is my thoughts on this and I will now let the rest of you decide your own fates for this thread.

 

[pctazhp]

  I am daily using 12V 2A external heating and adapters with FDD20, ECC31 with adapters, EL3N with adapters. I sometimes feel like I am robbed, I spent more than the amp itself to improve its sound. 
 
I have almost quit visiting the page, one day something is top notch, next day it is found in the bin. This is too much tube rolling and drama attached to it. The excitement of telling it to others is gone. The time is near when someone would open Elise and start doing internal mods and would say, this is magic, sparkles, stardust, just add this 200$ capacitor and you don't need anything else LOL 
 
Safe listening guys, honestly, you don't need 200$ tubes to enjoy the music!
 
Cheers to all the lucky ones 

LR

Hi LR)) I've missed seeing you here. I too tried a lot of tubes, both for power and drivers. I did use external power for the FDD20s. I have finally settled on the 6 X EL3N combination and feel no need to do anything other than listen and enjoy - and safely I might add. H1's post on the dangers of fooling around with external power certainly caught my attention. I'm too much of a klutz to feel I can safely turn my desktop into an experimental lab)))
 
Hope you are doing well)))

 

[aqsw]

I spent way too much money on the tube of the minute. TS 5998s and  Mazdas were tubes that were highly praised that I got rid of (and lost $$) because my amp didn't like them. I have fdd20s with adapters that I no longer use, along with the ecc31.
 
After alot of going back and forth , I have settled with the stock Svetlana Powers or 6080 Thomson Powers and 2 El3ns. No more rolling for me.
I'm just going to enjoy the music from this gem of an amp.
 
P.S. I believe the clarity, seperation, and air, will come from a quality dac before a quality amp.

 

[Suuup]

  As far as the manufacture is concerned, these people here are doing alot of R&D for them, to see what will work, what won't and where they should take the next iteration of Elise amp, without spending a dime.  Anyone that uses electricity is at risk at some point. When I was a flight electronics tech, I had to play with amperage that would fry you instantly, aka Magnetron tubes, in oil baths to prevent arching of the leads, and this is airborne will the plane is pitching up and down.  Not fun but if you are aware of the dangers, are careful, and follow good practice, I see no problem with using external transformers.  Is there a danger, goes with out saying, but it should be up to the individual as to what they do.  If people only want to use the amp stock, by all means, if they want information on different tubes, there is already an Elise tube rolling thread, they can just as easily go there. Common sense has to rule your life, you don't need to be told, that don't put things in the electrical outlet or you may get a shock.  I was told as a child not to do it, I did it anyway, and learned an abject lesson from it. People today seem to have the need for total protection, want to ride a bicycle, you have to wear a helmet for your own good.  Play street hockey, pads are a must.  Life is not meant to be lived in total protection and supervision.  Who knows, Feliks company may read these threads and say, you know, if we put a better and bigger transformer in the Elise, at a slightly higher price, may get more people involved.  Maybe even offer, high quality adapters, for some combinations.  You all are free to do as you want with this thread, if it changes to what has been suggested, I for one, won't bother with either.  I will go my own way.  This thread is active and alive, not dead like so many others. Still gains to be made for the Elise which is a good thing.  Products and life doesn't remain stagnant, it is the variety that makes it interesting. You want to read about everyone who gets a new Elise and how nice it is, it will get old in a hurry.  Case in point log on to the Senn 650 headphone forum, very active, and all the same, just different people saying the same thing over and over again for years.  That is my thoughts on this and I will now let the rest of you decide your own fates for this thread.

Absolutely agree with the CF! Very good post!

 

[Suuup]

   
Hi there vince.
 
I'm glad you posted this, as it has in fact reminded me of why I have always been a little reticent about playing around with external power supplies - as mordy mentioned, there are dangers involved. You do not need high voltages to get into serious trouble...it's the current that can kill, or at least cause serious problems. It was potentially dangerous enough when drawing less than 2A, but with the latest figures well in excess of this even, I personally no longer want to be associated with such possible disasters...and neither do Feliks-Audio. Any such extra power requirement should be forthcoming from within the safety of an enclosed amp, as far as I am concerned.
 
The table below sets out the potential for serious injury, even at very low amperage....too many people are either not aware of this, or take dangerous risks. Reminding myself of these facts has actually strengthened my position regarding such practices....I DO NOT WISH FOR SUCH POTENTIAL DISASTER HERE IN THIS THREAD...SORRY!...
 

If people don't know how this stuff works, this table is VERY misleading. Let me make a calculation here. 
 
What we want is Ohms law. U = R * I. Voltage = Resistance * Amperage.
 
Let's move stuff around. 
 
I = U / R. Amperage = Voltage / Resistance.
 
This is what we want. Say we have a 6.3V DC power supply. This is the same voltage as we get with stock tubes in Elise. Now we need to know the resistance. According to Wikipedia, the resistance at 25V is about 3250 for 50% of the population. This value will be even higher for only 6.3V, but let's roll with it. Time to plug in the numbers. Fyi, resistance is measured in ohms
 
6.3 Volt/ 3250 Ohm = 0.0019A. 
 
This is 1.9 mA. Shall we put that into perspective? You can start to feel a slight tingle when this value approaches 5 mA for DC power. Whoa, what? That's right. You can't even feel this shock. 
Remember, this 1.9 mA value will be even lower in reality, since the resistance of your skin will probably be higher. 
 
Is this enough to assuage people's fears? 

 

[connieflyer]

As far as spending too much money, I spent easily three times the price of the Ember, on tubes, adapter of the day, what not.  Did I lose money, yes, all part of the process,  find what you like and enjoy it.  I sold off my better(?) tubes in favor of tubes I liked better. You buy a new car, and the minute you drive it off the lot, it decreases in valuve 20%, risk, rewards, all part of life and the learning process.  I have learned alot here about what I will do and what I won't do to get the music where I want it to be.  Music can connect to your soul, like nothing else can. It can move you in ways only you yourself can feel.  Don't stop the progress on this amp, it is reasonable prices and with a few upgrades (from what I have read) sounds better than amps costing much more.  Heard the same thing on  the Ember thread, everyone feels this I suppose, as a way to make up for over spending on it.  You usually don't see many people taking on the $1000.00 plus amps, and doing mods and tube rolling. Plug and play. When the Elise gets here and I do what I feel needs to be tried, I will still have my Ember and will probably use it, as the sound, as the way I have it suits me. It will be the same with the Elise. I could have been happy with just about any of the tube, adapter combo's with my amp, but am glad I tried outside the box, as it made "just"enough difference to go from "I  can probably live with this" to I can hardly wait to turn it on and escape to the music.

 

[nojdrof]

WOW!

 


Congrats what was your invoice number and when did it ship, just curious How are the chances of getting mine before Easter?

Cheers
WB

I ordered my Elise on 12-17-15
Invoice #35
I received it on 3-3-16

 

[connieflyer]

To soften your day......
 
 

 
 

 

[hypnos1]

  If people don't know how this stuff works, this table is VERY misleading. Let me make a calculation here. 
 
What we want is Ohms law. U = R * I. Voltage = Resistance * Amperage.
 
Let's move stuff around. 
 
I = U / R. Amperage = Voltage / Resistance.
 
This is what we want. Say we have a 6.3V DC power supply. This is the same voltage as we get with stock tubes in Elise. Now we need to know the resistance. According to Wikipedia, the resistance at 25V is about 3250 for 50% of the population. This value will be even higher for only 6.3V, but let's roll with it. Time to plug in the numbers. Fyi, resistance is measured in ohms
 
6.3 Volt/ 3250 Ohm = 0.0019A. 
 
This is 1.9 mA. Shall we put that into perspective? You can start to feel a slight tingle when this value approaches 5 mA for DC power. Whoa, what? That's right. You can't even feel this shock. 
Remember, this 1.9 mA value will be even lower in reality, since the resistance of your skin will probably be higher. 
 
Is this enough to assuage people's fears? 

 
Yes indeed, Suuup....there are indeed many factors that would appear to determine the exact degree of current delivered to any individual. The table shown certainly is a "worst case scenario", but your figures seem equally to the opposite (optimistic) extreme. Research on the net still shows the need for extreme care when dealing with even low-voltage DC. I - and others who have tinkered with external PSs here in head-fi land - have experienced far more than a mere 'tingle', even when low(ish) current draw was involved.
 
And I'm sorry @connieflyer, I know we are living in a "cotton wool" society now, but I for one do not believe in taking any chances whatsoever when dealing with electricity - especially for those who have little or no experience/knowledge in handling it safely. Accidents can happen even with experienced professionals, as you will know.
 
I advise anyone without the necessary knowledge who is interested in approaching such matters to do extensive research into this before even thinking about it - "fears assuaged"?...NO WAY, ALAS!!!

 

[Suuup]

 
Yes indeed, Suuup....there are indeed many factors that would appear to determine the exact degree of current delivered to any individual. The table shown certainly is a "worst case scenario", but your figures seem equally to the opposite (optimistic) extreme. Research on the net still shows the need for extreme care when dealing with even low-voltage DC. I - and others who have tinkered with external PSs here in head-fi land - have experienced far more than a mere 'tingle', even when low(ish) current draw was involved.
 
And I'm sorry @connieflyer, I know we are living in a "cotton wool" society now, but I for one do not believe in taking any chances whatsoever when dealing with electricity - especially for those who have little or no experience/knowledge in handling it safely. Accidents can happen even with experienced professionals, as you will know.
 
I advise anyone without the necessary knowledge who is interested in approaching such matters to do extensive research into this before even thinking about it - "fears assuaged"?...NO WAY, ALAS!!!

I'm sorry, but there is nothing 'optimistic' about my figures. These are cold hard facts. If you have very sweaty hands, your skin resistance might be lower. It's still not harmful though. Another factor is whether or not it's AC or DC. My figure was for DC. You won't be able to feel 1.9 mA of DC power. If it's AC power, you will feel a slight tingle, as per your own figure. 

 

[vince741]

When dd the price of the Elise went up?
It was still $649 with stock tubes at the time of my purchase but it's $699 now.

 

[hypnos1]

  I'm sorry, but there is nothing 'optimistic' about my figures. These are cold hard facts. If you have very sweaty hands, your skin resistance might be lower. It's still not harmful though. Another factor is whether or not it's AC or DC. My figure was for DC. You won't be able to feel 1.9 mA of DC power. If it's AC power, you will feel a slight tingle, as per your own figure. 

 
Hey Suuup...so the (very unpleasant) jolts that I and others have experienced were merely "slight tingles"?...boy, are we mighty wimps then!!...

...
 
My final words on this matter are that my sole aim and motives are to promote responsible and the safest possible practices when experimenting with such modifications. I leave it up to individuals, of course, to make up their own minds - in the hope that they take the necessary steps to find out as much as possible (much more than has been posted here) about the safe use of a potentially dangerous medium, before venturing into this territory. Anything less is bordering on irresponsibility....
 
And so the motto must be : HAPPY, and SAFE LISTENING TO ALL! 

....

 

[Suuup]

Hey Suuup...so the (very unpleasant) jolts that I and others have experienced were merely "slight tingles"?...boy, are we mighty wimps then!!...:wink_face: ...

My final words on this matter are that my sole aim and motives are to promote responsible and the safest possible practices when experimenting with such modifications. I leave it up to individuals, of course, to make up their own minds - in the hope that they take the necessary steps to find out as much as possible (much more than has been posted here) about the safe use of a potentially dangerous medium, before venturing into this territory. Anything less is bordering on irresponsibility....

And so the motto must be : HAPPY, and SAFE LISTENING TO ALL!  :bigsmile_face: ....

Maybe if it's 12V you're playing with, it might be more of a zap rather than tingle. Still far from dangerous.