[angpsi]

  1 - Ferrite effect - does not degrade sound
2 - This is ELISE thread

Hi @frederick-rea,
 
1. good to know, since you personally have mileage with ferrites.
2. but @hypnos1 obviously has the necessary background to comment on both the Elise and the ELise, despite the fact that he's moved on to new ventures!
 

   
Hi angpsi....a real convert indeed to EL land - glad your ears have finally 'tuned in' to their full magic. There's no going back for me either, I have to admit lol! 

 
Interesting how you now prefer the ST12s over the Spezs...yet another example of system 'synergy' at work, I suspect! 

 (would be interesting to see how you would find things with the T1s as opposed to the HD600s....).
 
But, I fear the use of price-compromised adapters will also have a bearing here - an unfortunate Catch22 situation for those who can't adapt their own tubes, alas...

. And especially with the Spezs - if Ferrite chokes are used as interference suppressors, I suspect these might also have a very slight detrimental effect on sound at the same time as actually making the tubes listenable lol! (as has been found sometimes in other situations where they are used). The same goes for adding 'grid stopper resistors' in pentodes to help alleviate possible interference problems - I (and others) have found they can indeed negatively impact the sound....Catch22 once again! 

 
And I'm firmly convinced that the much cooler running of the amp with these EL tubes can only be a real benefit - one which I don't think F-A have fully appreciated IMHO!! But thankfully, great results can indeed be had from a wide variety of stock config'n tubes - here in Euforia, as with Elise (if not more​ so! 

).

Hi @hypnos1, personally I 'blame' the HD600 for the greater part of my adventures: for one thing they seem to be ruthlessly honest with their background, and they also have this very narrow sense of soundstage that just puts everything crammed up into you head! I've written to a fellow Greek Head-fier in hope to audition his Beyer T1s and confirm this impression. But now that everything's opened up with the TFK EL11/12 I can hear incredible differences according to the make of each particular album (granted, that should be the case with all audiophile grade systems).
 
On a final note, I'm still concerned whether the ELs are trying to bring the Elise into SS territory. If I get my hands on an SS loaner without much pain (or bring myself to 'borrow' my Benchmark DAC1 from my home system) I'll try to compare and see if that claim has any validation whatsoever.

 

[frederick-rea]

 

  1 - Ferrite effect - does not degrade sound
2 - This is ELISE thread

Hi @frederick-rea,
 
1. good to know, since you personally have mileage with ferrites.
2. but @hypnos1 obviously has the necessary background to comment on both the Elise and the ELise, despite the fact that he's moved on to new ventures!
 
 

Surely H1 has the knowledge and the right to comment here, but by the last bold sentence seemed to me that he would be mistaken in the thread. He wrote "...here in Euforia, as with Elise (if not more​ so! 

)." which leads me to this interpretation. Far from me questioning the legitimacy of each one, although it has already been done in Euforia thread. If I do not feel comfortable here, I left by my own foot as I made in Euforia thread

 

[hypnos1]

 
Hi @frederick-rea,
 
1. good to know, since you personally have mileage with ferrites.
2. but @hypnos1 obviously has the necessary background to comment on both the Elise and the ELise, despite the fact that he's moved on to new ventures!
 

Hi @hypnos1, personally I 'blame' the HD600 for the greater part of my adventures: for one thing they seem to be ruthlessly honest with their background, and they also have this very narrow sense of soundstage that just puts everything crammed up into you head! I've written to a fellow Greek Head-fier in hope to audition his Beyer T1s and confirm this impression. But now that everything's opened up with the TFK EL11/12 I can hear incredible differences according to the make of each particular album (granted, that should be the case with all audiophile grade systems).
 
On a final note, I'm still concerned whether the ELs are trying to bring the Elise into SS territory. If I get my hands on an SS loaner without much pain (or bring myself to 'borrow' my Benchmark DAC1 from my home system) I'll try to compare and see if that claim has any validation whatsoever.

 
That's great news how the ELs take the HD600s to a whole new level, angpsi - in combination with ELISE, of course!

 
As for entering SS territory, with these tubes especially, I personally think our amps are doing a marvellous job of almost achieving the impossible - ie. combining the better qualities of SS with those of tubes, which I'm sure is no bad thing?! This will be another interesting area for comparison when I get my Chord Hugo 2 DAC/Amp, as will your own experiment lol....
 
And it would appear I need to apologise for mistaking the thread I posted on recently, and which you yourself were obviously gracious enough to recognise as such. But I must admit I have never in the whole time since the first introduction of Elise seen an honest, trivial mistake jumped upon in such a manner as mine was by the member in question.
 
When we make any statements, we must of course expect possible questioning/challenging of same, and be prepared to take this with equanimity and perhaps a large pinch of salt! But to take umbrage, and then threaten to 'leave' - or even actually do so summarily - is not really the best attitude in threads such as ours IMHO, and saddens me that it should culminate in the response here.
 
Anyway, back to more positive things...really glad once more that your setup is now obviously bringing you even greater joy...may it grow more still LOL!!

 

[pctazhp]

OMG!!! Leaving this thread because you think H1 should have posted something in the other thread??? I sure wish I had so few problems I could worry about something like that. Half the time I don't even know which thread I'm posting in. What difference does it make??
 
I don't know why, but both threads have slowed considerably recently. I'm grateful when anyone takes the time to post in either thread.

 

[mordy]

Hi FR,
 
Please stay with us on whatever Feliks thread you choose. I for one enjoy your posts and the decades of experience with tube amplifiers that you bring.
 
I am still thinking about if an anti static mat will help in my case since I have a metal spiked equipment rack with shelves made out of MDF particle board. The rack is quite heavy, has five shelves, and sits on a wooden floor.
 
Each shelf sits on four little tabs, and based on a tip from Steven Gutenberg years ago, I put a little marble ball between the shelf and the tab to cancel out vibrations. (The green glass marbles seemed to work best - just joking!)
 
Re the ferrite adapters I tried them but cannot say for sure yet if they impact my system. I put four on them on RCA patch cords but cannot discern a difference. A fifth one I put on the feed from my laptop out to my amp, and there seems to be some effect in lowering the noise.
 
The audio out from my PC is very noisy and I have not found a solution yet.

 

[mordy]

Hi angpsi,
 
ATM I am enjoying EL11/EL12N very much. Did you try the EL12N as well?
 
It seems to me that some people have all three types of EL12 - EL12, EL12 Spezial and EL12N. Could somebody compare the sound?
 
It also seems to me the EL12 Telefunken tubes are among the best , but I don't have EL12 tubes from that brand yet - only Valvo and Tungsram. Somehow the EL12N, which all appear to be the same, regardless of year and brand, seem more stable than the temperamental EL12 tubes.

 

[pctazhp]

  Hi angpsi,
 
ATM I am enjoying EL11/EL12N very much. Did you try the EL12N as well?
 
It seems to me that some people have all three types of EL12 - EL12, EL12 Spezial and EL12N. Could somebody compare the sound?
 
It also seems to me the EL12 Telefunken tubes are among the best , but I don't have EL12 tubes from that brand yet - only Valvo and Tungsram. Somehow the EL12N, which all appear to be the same, regardless of year and brand, seem more stable than the temperamental EL12 tubes.

I have TFK EL11-ST, Siemens EL12-ST and RFD (?) EL12N. Don't have the spez. In all EL combos, I use EL11 as the driver and the other two as powers. In my system I prefer the EL12N to the ST. Cleaner and more dynamic - more "slam". The ST may be a little smoother, but I don't find it quite as compelling. However, with a headphone that is brighter than my HD800S, the EL12-ST might be the preferable choice.
 
I have many other tubes, including many of the popular ones here. The EL11-ST/EL12N is probably my favorite combo. It just does everything right, and I can listen for hours without fatigue. Very emotionally involving, which is my primary criteria at this point.
 
I have had no hum or other problems with my EL11/12 tubes.

 

[pctazhp]

  As for entering SS territory, with these tubes especially, I personally think our amps are doing a marvellous job of almost achieving the impossible - ie. combining the better qualities of SS with those of tubes, which I'm sure is no bad thing?! This will be another interesting area for comparison when I get my Chord Hugo 2 DAC/Amp, as will your own experiment lol....
 
And it would appear I need to apologise for mistaking the thread I posted on recently, and which you yourself were obviously gracious enough to recognise as such. But I must admit I have never in the whole time since the first introduction of Elise seen an honest, trivial mistake jumped upon in such a manner as mine was by the member in question.
 
When we make any statements, we must of course expect possible questioning/challenging of same, and be prepared to take this with equanimity and perhaps a large pinch of salt! But to take umbrage, and then threaten to 'leave' - or even actually do so summarily - is not really the best attitude in threads such as ours IMHO, and saddens me that it should culminate in the response here.
 
 

I think those of us who favor tube amps, do so because they allow for a certain degree, large or small depending on tubes used, of euphonic coloration that we experience as closer to what we hear in live performances. Some have called tubes glorified tone controls )) Although I owned some great solid state amps in my audiophile days, I would not want to be stuck with just one voicing for headphone purposes.
 
Agree that the usual camaraderie of our FA threads has been unnecessarily disturbed lately. Certainly there is absolutely no need for you to apologize.

 

[mordy]

Hi pct,
 
Agree with you that TFK EL11 ST and EL12N is one of my absolutely best sounding combinations, and it sounds better than TFK EL11/EL12. However, I don't have the TFK EL12 tubes yet, and I was wondering if I got all TFK tubes it would sound better. From what you are writing it seems that you still prefer the EL12N to the TFK EL12 ST tubes.

 

[pctazhp]

  Hi pct,
 
Agree with you that TFK EL11 ST and EL12N is one of my absolutely best sounding combinations, and it sounds better than TFK EL11/EL12. However, I don't have the TFK EL12 tubes yet, and I was wondering if I got all TFK tubes it would sound better. From what you are writing it seems that you still prefer the EL12N to the TFK EL12 ST tubes.

Mordy:  My EL12-ST is Siemens, so I can't comment on the TFK version. My only TFK EL tube is the EL11-ST. It is the round-plate version, but not the impossible to find mesh version. H1 had reported that the oval-plate version of the EL11-ST sounded pretty much the same as the EL3N. There was a lot of discussion a while back about these different tubes, and as I recall there was a lot of re-branding. I came to the conclusion that ordering any of these tubes is somewhat of a gamble.
 
I've been tempted to try the spez EL12 for powers. I actually have the ferrite chokes and the adapters are on order. But I'm enjoying the EL12N so much, I doubt I'll actually buy a pair of spez tubes.

 

[mordy]

Wonder if this has happened to you:
 
I ordered a Valvo EL11 tube. When it arrived it came with the original box and looked in very good condition, but when I inserted the tube it was dead. No sound.
 
Today, after a couple of weeks, I decided to give it another try before relegating it to the dust bin (some people sell dead tubes as decorative pieces, but it does not appeal to me lol.)
 
Put in the tube, and no sound. Got sidetracked and left it in for another 10 minutes. Then I thought I heard faint sound from it. Pushed my balance control all to the right - yep; there is a very low volume sound.
 
Since I have one 6267/EF86 tube that also plays at low volume, I paired the two. It somehow worked if I adjusted the balance control quite far. Afterwards I switched the tubes right to left, and it appears that this old sleepy tube is slowly waking up and playing louder.
 
I will let it simmer for a while and then I will compare it to another Valvo EL11 to see if the volume matches.
 
Strange - did I wake up old slumbering electrons?

 

[UntilThen]

Not my Telefunken and RFT EL12. It's in coma no matter how many electric shocks I gave it. I even send it to UK's emergency department but Dr. Hypnos1 couldn't revived it. 
 
Mind you, they look new.

 

[mordy]

Hi UT,
 
Here is the other step in the revival process that I forgot to mention:
 
Even if the pins look new and clean, scrape them with a dull small knife blade or similar. Although the pins looked clean on my tube, possibly this might have helped as well. Between musical selections I could hear some static which could be a giveaway of poor pin contact. Wiggled the tube in the adapter and the static disappeared.
 
After an hour of playing my impression is that the volume is normal, but I have not yet compared it to my other EL11.
 
Still a strange experience......

 

[connieflyer]

You may also try standing on one leg rubbing your head with one hand and your stomach with the other hand and then also hopping up and down on one leg really does help I've seen it myself and I read it on the internet that makes it absolutely true

 

[pctazhp]

You may also try standing on one leg rubbing your head with one hand and your stomach with the other hand and then also hopping up and down on one leg really does help I've seen it myself and I read it on the internet that makes it absolutely true

A most timely suggestion: