[Oskari]

Man, don't follow Oskari. I need more than 2 words descriptions. :etysmile:

[VIDEO]https://youtu.be/b_OZaZ2dUE4[/VIDEO]

Mea culpa

 

[mordy]

Ho Howie13,
 
Thanks for the chart of the gain factor - saves me the trouble of looking up EL11 and EL12.
 
The 6N23P (6DJ8 family) with a gain factor of 35 pairs nicely with 6AS7/6080 tubes.
 
Another area that is very mysterious to me is the plate voltage of different tube types that can be used in the Elise. I have no idea of the effect , if any, of using EL12 tubes with different voltage ratings (250V, 375V and 425V ?).
 
Another mysterious area to me is what happens to the plate voltage and the amp when you use dual power tubes....

 

[HOWIE13]

  Ho Howie13,
 
Thanks for the chart of the gain factor - saves me the trouble of looking up EL11 and EL12.
 
The 6N23P (6DJ8 family) with a gain factor of 35 pairs nicely with 6AS7/6080 tubes.
 
Another area that is very mysterious to me is the plate voltage of different tube types that can be used in the Elise. I have no idea of the effect , if any, of using EL12 tubes with different voltage ratings (250V, 375V and 425V ?).
 
Another mysterious area to me is what happens to the plate voltage and the amp when you use dual power tubes....

Yes I wish I was more knowledgeable about all these things too.
Synergy might be predictable from all these different measurements but I guess it's just trial and error for me.
One thing I have noticed is the sound seems to suit driver tubes of higher gain than the powers.

 

[pctazhp]

So I checked tracking and my adapters arrived at the Scottsdale post office early this morning. In the meantime, EL11/Bendix6080 just keeps sounding better and better. No human should be entitled to enjoy such cosmic pleasure, let alone be dreaming of transcending to an entirely new galaxy.

 

[mordy]

Hi pct,
 
Tried a number of combinations with the EL11 - all are very good, but with the Bendix it is sublime.

 

[connieflyer]

For you animal lovers I'm sure you understand. This is Connor's new way of getting my attention when he wants to have a treat play or go out you can't deny it he just sits right in the way

 

[pctazhp]

Connor is just practicing for when you get Euforia.
 
By the way, are we allowed to mention "Euforia" on this thread? I get so confused with all the different threads. My Ignorant Turkey gave notice yesterday and walked out.

 

[Audict123]

I really sympathise with Mordy in trying to understand better what the electrical parameters of various tubes actually tell us about compatibility with Elise. I guess people like Lukasz and Glenn regularly have a laugh or shake their heads when they read our ramblings on this (to us) elusive matter. Being trained as a scientist, I nevertheless feel the urge to sink my teeth in it in a methodological, step by step way. But the learning proces is slow and probably I'll never reach a satisfying level. At least there are no exams, so I can 'study' with headphones on without penalty.
 
Elise is designed as a driver - cathode follower combination. I read somewhere that these can operate in a relatively wide range of conditions - much wider than amps with transformers at the output. That at least partly explains Elise tube rolling potential. Second, the voltages applied in Elise are relatively conservative. I measured all these voltages but won't list them here. It's part of Feliks secret recepy for Elise's delicious sound.
 
Mordy: the plate voltage (upper) ratings  (250V, 375V and 425V etc) are all on the safe side as the voltage that Elise applies to the plate is lower. Whether you insert a single triode or dual triode in a socket doesn't matter for the plate voltage - it stays the same. That is NOT necessarily true for all voltages applied to the tube. Elise uses so called 'cathode biasing', in which a resistor to the cathode increases it's voltage relative to the grid. The grid is therefore (*relatively*) negative, lowering the current flow between plate and cathode. This relative negative grid voltage may actually change between single and dual triode tubes, depending on how you connect your single triode!  I like to use single triodes like 6J5 (half a SN7) as drivers. In my own adapters, I connect these to BOTH cathode connectors of Elise's sockets, so two both cathode resistors. As these are parallel, it halves the cathode resistance. As a result, the voltage difference between cathode and grid halves and the grid is less effective in reducing the current. So, the current in the single triode tube is higher than that of 'half' a 6SN7. Perhaps not exactly double, but close. The end result is that there is not much difference in loudness. Is this all correct? Don't take my word for it! If it is, it's because Glenn put me in the right direction (thanks Glenn!). The advantage of the dual triodes like 6SN7 is that each half works less hard (which may translate to longer life) and that noise is reduced.  I like 6J5's a lot and therefore decided to combine the best of both worlds: I built a 'subchassis' that allows me to run connect two 6J5 sockets to each of Elise's 6SN7 sockets. It looks like this:
 

 
Looks superhot if you ask me. Opulent And it sounds like that too. PS to Hypnos1: electrically, this is actually 'just a normal 6SN7' setup so I thought I could break the one tube for each socket rule for once
 
 
I love the sound of these Visseaux tubes. They add spark and energy to breathe life in the HD650's and their bass is brutal. The front tubes are naked versions of the 6J5MGT in which I removed the outer aluminium can surrounding the glass.
 
Sorry to all who find this boring stuff. And I'm not trying to lecture - no license, no level for that! I'm just trying to share the little things I hope I learned to those who also like to understand what's going on while tube rolling.

 

[Oskari]

Phil Collins is sounding dääm good tonight.


[VIDEO]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDNpNP35A_8[/VIDEO]

Do you remember

 

[mordy]

Hi Audict123,
 
Thanks for your answer. Your set-up looks really neat!
 
I cannot say that I fully understand what you are writing, but I have a lot of respect for Glenn. There are adapters available for 2 x 6J5 to 6SN7. In what way are these different than what you built (except for aesthetics)?
 

 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tube-Socket-DIY-Audio-Vacuum-Tube-Adapter-Socket-Converter-6J5-6J5-TO-6SN7-1PC-/232219290610?hash=item3611592bf2:g:W50AAOSw44BYizj8
 
I know that DL started out using the CJ5 tubes, but has since changed to others.
 
It is really hard to find CJ5 tubes on eBay - all that come up are parts for the CJ5 Jeep lol!
 
BTW, what kind are power tubes do you use?

 

[Audict123]

Electrically, the adapters are the same. But the dual commercial ones may not fit properly, Elises sockets are too close. If they do fit, I feel the aesthetics are not great, particularly the hight. All personal of course. Dunno why DL didn't like the 6J5's. I know he owned the Visseaux too. I have quite some tubes for Elise. To me, these Visseaux 6J5 come closest to the fabulous FDD20, without the need for an external 12v transformer.

Look for 6J5 not CJ5 to get rid of Jeep hits . The powers in this setup are stock 6N13C. These Russians are underestimated in my view. In this combo, the synergy is great.

 

[Audict123]

Btw, if you want to use a single 6J5 to start with, you can use the ECC33 to ECC31 adapter (also used for 6N7 tube) too. The pinout is identical for the 5 6J5 pins.

 

[DavidA]

@Audict123, that is some great DIY work on the plate adapter.  Very impressive

 

[Audict123]

Thanks @DavidA. One more pic, top view:

 
 
Hypnos1 will be proud of me

: I used solid core silver wire in teflon tubing to make the adapters. The wires run from the central sockets with the 'coke shape' tubes to the front sockets below the surface of the black bottom plate. Of course, carefully shielded from the metal surface of Elise. I put a lot of effort in this only because I really adore these variants of the Visseaux 6J5. BTW: the coke bottle shape 6J5G are very hard to get/expensive but the 6J5MG or 6J5MGT are a bit easier to get and cheaper and sound 100% identical in all my tests.

 

[mordy]

Having fun with my EL11 TFK drivers. They bring out the beautiful qualities in the power tubes. Since they are from the early 40's I decided to pair them with the only other 40's tubes that I have - the 6N7 tubes - in this case a pair of 1942 RCAs. I think the term used is correct in the world of restoration.
 
These tubes belong to the same family as the 6N7G and 6N7GT tubes. However, the 6N7 has no visual appeal at all since it is an all metal black tube without any glass and tube glow magic. The Mazda/Visseux 6N7G tubes from the same family are highly regarded, especially for their sound stage - a wall of sound.
 
Adding the 6N7 to the 6BL7 together with the TFK drivers results in an endearing sound - light and punchy with a very wide sound stage. Very good;  not sublime, but fun.
 
Since multiple tubes tubes are relegated to no mans land, I am only showing three tubes: