Feliks Audio Elise Impressions Thread – a New Start (please read first post for summary)

[angpsi]

  Elise with Mullard EF80 and GE 6as7GA sounds so good I've been listening the whole day. The high end sparkle and the bass it has developed, is sleep depriving. Be warn guys. If you can't sleep, don't blame me.

Man, you're gonna have us sailing on a completely new trip... Did you notice that Wege sells those coveted silver shield TFs?
 
Regarding the article I mentioned, the important part for me is exactly that it all eventually comes down to a preferred sound signature:

  (...) Many audio engineers disagree. Scott Metcalfe, for example, says that recording to analog tape isn't any purer than recording music digitally. But the distortion and pitch variation that analog tape adds to the recording are preferred by some artists and audiences.

"I think there are few people who would tell you that recording classical music to analog tape has any benefit at all," Metcalfe says. But for some artists, he says — particularly in rock — those layers of distortion are preferable.

Quote:

  Ludwig says he mastered White's Lazaretto on analog tape not because it's a better way to master but because "it's what [White] wanted."

"For many world-class mixers," Ludwig says, "mixing to analog tape has no advantages if what comes out of the console is exactly what you want."

"But if you say the whole experience — just like smoking cigars with friends — [is better], well, do it. Enjoy smoking cigars with friends, and drink beer and brandy and enjoy listening to an old-fashioned record player. But don't say the sound is better.

"You may say it sounds better to you. That's OK. That's a subjective matter."

 
Of course, the reproduction chain also plays its part. 

 
Clearmountain and Ludwig say that early analog-to-digital converters had an industrial sound, which made CDs sound brittle. But when Apogee Electronics (...) developed the first high-quality converters in 1985, the sound came into focus.
"It wasn't until CDs actually started to sound good [that I went]: 'That's what it sounded like. That's what I remember doing in the studio,'" Clearmountain says.

 
As far as I'm concerned, even live music reproduction can equally be considered as artificial, as well as natural. For example, how does the acoustic treatment of a music hall—or a listening room—affect the perceived sound? One can even argue that some performances are 'tuned', or even written, according to the hall they are intended for (see, e.g., David Byrne's TED talk).
 
I found the article educational exactly in this regard; and actually this is why I used @HPLobster's post about sound production as a reference.
 
P.S. Similar to my explorations with tubes (i.e. the Elise), I am gradually becoming interested in playing around with vinyl. Haven't decided whether it's a vice or a virtue. Solid state & digital seemed much more of a straight deal, and in a way more agnostic to personal tuning apart from choosing the 'right' combo in the first place.

 

[HOWIE13]

   
I have the box set. 9 symphonies on 7 LPs. Need to find time to listen to it on Euforia.
 

How wonderful- could be a life changing experience. 

 

[Frederick Rea]

   
If you attend a 'live' classical session and someone has a coughing fit, there's nothing much you can do, aside from choking him into silence. Some noise just make it more real... more human. 

The most annoying thing on vinyl records are the scratches. Those who have auditory memory will have as part of the orchestra another element that plays "crack" every time you play it. Will be an integral part of the disc. It is not the same as coughing in a live concert (ever and forever) always one or more times in a random and unpredictable way

 

[pctazhp]

Vinyl vs digital, tube vs solid state, Elise vs La Figaro 339 - tales as old as time.
 

 

[pctazhp]

  I had Elise with Mullard EF80 and Bendix 6080wb and La Figaro 339 with Siemens EF80 and RCA 6080 on. My son came home and was intrigued by my growing collections of tube amps.
 
I ask him to listen with the T1 on both amps. He pick Miles Davis and John Mayer from Tidal Hifi and started listening. When he had finished I ask him what he thinks. He said that both amps sounded very good on the T1. He further mentioned that La Figaro has the wider soundstage but that Elise was more focused and clearer. 
 
I agree with him. That's what I hear too and I love both amps. 

The entire world is intrigued.

 

[connieflyer]

They should be intrigued. The story of beauty and the beast was written about Sue and I, I don't suppose I have to tell you which was which!

 

[UntilThen]

  The most annoying thing on vinyl records are the scratches. Those who have auditory memory will have as part of the orchestra another element that plays "crack" every time you play it. Will be an integral part of the disc. It is not the same as coughing in a live concert (ever and forever) always one or more times in a random and unpredictable way

 
When an LP has bad scratches it's time to toss it away, that's what you do with a humming tube. 

 
We're spoilt by the digital medium. It's gotten to the stage where it's so good, we take it for granted. Select any song from your vast collection of flac or hi-res files and press play and away you go. 20 secs into the track, if you change your mind, select another song, life couldn't be easier.
 
For some, the sheer experience of pulling out a LP from it's cover, flip it in your hands like a maestro. scan the shining surface and place it on the platter with the precision of an expert dart player, start the spin, place the dust pickup gadget over it and give it a light brush, lower your stylus on a little pad to remove any dust, finally lowering the tonearm and stylus expertly on the grove, walk back to your favourite armchair and enjoy.... 

 

[connieflyer]

I miss doing that sometimes it was all part of the process of listening. It was and is to this day pretty cool. Thanks for sharing now go back to hitting play!

 

[Frederick Rea]

   
When an LP has bad scratches it's time to toss it away, that's what you do with a humming tube. 

 
We're spoilt by the digital medium. It's gotten to the stage where it's so good, we take it for granted. Select any song from your vast collection of flac or hi-res files and press play and away you go. 20 secs into the track, if you change your mind, select another song, life couldn't be easier.
 
For some, the sheer experience of pulling out a LP from it's cover, flip it in your hands like a maestro. scan the shining surface and place it on the platter with the precision of an expert dart player, start the spin, place the dust pickup gadget over it and give it a light brush, lower your stylus on a little pad to remove any dust, finally lowering the tonearm and stylus expertly on the grove, walk back to your favourite armchair and enjoy.... 

totally agree. The same goes for tube rolling

 

[UntilThen]

After several days with EF86 and Svetlana 6h13c on Elise, I went back to the stock driver Tong Sol 6sn7gtb re-issue with Svetlana 6h13c and was shocked at how dark and muddy it sounded. It took me a full minute to readjust to the sound. Nice thumping bass but it was just too warm, bothering on darkness.

 

[HPLobster]

Since the cable CF recommended sadly isn´t available with European voltage, I have placed an order for this one here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=201181659099 
Very curious to see what will come of it 

 

 

[UntilThen]

  Since the cable CF recommended sadly isn´t available with European voltage, I have placed an order for this one here: http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=201181659099 
Very curious to see what will come of it 

 

 
Keep that for the kettle and buy this instead.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/40th-Anniversary-Edition-EU-ver-accuphase-power-cord-EU-AC-power-cable-2m/152476548167?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dcfab8ff2947c4e64b801589f0c31f103%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222309828074

 

[HPLobster]

 
 
As far as I'm concerned, even live music reproduction can equally be considered as artificial, as well as natural. For example, how does the acoustic treatment of a music hall—or a listening room—affect the perceived sound? One can even argue that some performances are 'tuned', or even written, according to the hall they are intended for (see, e.g., David Byrne's TED talk).
 
I found the article educational exactly in this regard; and actually this is why I used @HPLobster's post about sound production as a reference.
 
P.S. Similar to my explorations with tubes (i.e. the Elise), I am gradually becoming interested in playing around with vinyl. Haven't decided whether it's a vice or a virtue. Solid state & digital seemed much more of a straight deal, and in a way more agnostic to personal tuning apart from choosing the 'right' combo in the first place.

 
Sergiu Celibidache is my favourite conductor of all time. I was fortunate to meet him once when I was very young, because my mother (who is a violinist) was on friendly terms with him. I also am friends with Günther Specovius, a famous journalist who interviewed him many times (one of those interviews even is part of the Bruckner-collection for EMI) and who produced a feature film about him, he is living here in Hamburg actually.
 
Celibidache, Specovius and also other musicians even today are - musical achievements aside of course - actually disregarding Karajan because he was such a "sell out" considering recordings back in the days. Celibidache was always of the passionate opinion that such a thing as a live music reproduction could never be achieved. As a Buddhist he claimed that the realms of music and technology simply cannot be made compatible, since in Engineering all in all it´s always about Yes or No, but in the musical world, it´s ultimately only about one element: the truth... which can be a very volatile thing that´s not even captured most of the time during live events... I know this is utterly philosophical, but I often think about this when I´m listening to one of his records, or when I attend an actual live concert.  
He vehemently refused to be recorded himself btw and if it wasn´t for his own son, who organized many recordings to be done covertly actually (true story

), most of his recordings would not exist.

 

[HPLobster]

   
Keep that for the kettle and buy this instead.
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/40th-Anniversary-Edition-EU-ver-accuphase-power-cord-EU-AC-power-cable-2m/152476548167?_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851&_trkparms=aid%3D222007%26algo%3DSIC.MBE%26ao%3D2%26asc%3D20131003132420%26meid%3Dcfab8ff2947c4e64b801589f0c31f103%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D5%26rkt%3D6%26sd%3D222309828074

I might just as well go for Audioquest again, but I won´t this time. No more spending on snake oil.  
 
Oehlbach is also a "dedicated HiFi-cable-company" but at least it´s cheap.  

 

[UntilThen]

 
I might just as well go for Audioquest again, but I won´t this time. No more spending on snake oil.  
 
Oehlbach is also a "dedicated HiFi-cable-company" but at least it´s cheap.  

Messing with you. Off course Oehibach is ok.  I have not heard of Oehibach though.