Feliks Audio Elise Impressions Thread – a New Start (please read first post for summary)

[UntilThen]

  Since I am thinking of getting the EL12 Spez tubes, did anyone ask Mrs Xu Ling if she can insulate the anode wires in the adapters to prevent them from picking up hum?
 
IMHO she is in the best position in implementing this with her knowledge and expertise.

 
I will have a word with Mrs Xu Ling. Perhaps might even suggest to her to cut the umbilical cord. 
 
Ok I've send her an email.

 

[DecentLevi]

   
As Howie has pointed out, EL12 Spez drivers and Tung Sol 5998 powers is 7.4a total. 
 
NOT ONLY CAN'T YOU HOLD OFF FOR ONE SECOND LONGER... ELISE COULDN'T EITHER. YOU ARE GONNA BLOW HER UP ONE DAY.
 
And please stick to the convention of stating the drivers first, followed by powers.

OK, didn't realize at the time, but at least my Elise handled this combo flawlessly without the faintest hint of any trouble during what was essentially just a short test... Switching the EL12 Spez back to powers with all the outstanding drivers I've got, the TS 5998 + EL12 Spez just became the 'flavor of the minute', and I'll update my post on that combo.
 
No blowing up here as I'lll be sticking to proper combos and have already all the tubes I should ever need. And I have a feeling she's still got a bit of legroom left before anything like that would ever happen, though I'll not be going that route.
 
Mentioning drivers then powers... oh boy all my notes are in reverse, so I guess I'll have to switch the noted order when mentioning them.

 

[pctazhp]

@UntilThen. You showed us an impressive and detailed description of a world-class (I'm assuming that as I would not expect less of you) power cable. Unfortunately, you forgot one small detail. WHERE DID YOU GET IT????  Was that intentional? Do you just want us to envy your good fortune or will you at some point let us know the source????
 
I have long respected Mrs. X. I now have even more respect for her when I realize she receives emails talking about such things as an "umbilical cord" and yet still seems to like us FA types.
 
General question for anyone who has a pair of EL12 spez tubes. Do you think they sound significantly better as power tubes than any other EL12 powers you have tried? This question assumes you don't have, or have already solved, the hum problem.

 

[pctazhp]

  OK, didn't realize at the time, but at least my Elise handled this combo flawlessly without the faintest hint of any trouble during what was essentially just a short test... Switching the EL12 Spez back to powers with all the outstanding drivers I've got, the TS 5998 + EL12 Spez just became the 'flavor of the minute', and I'll update my post on that combo.
 
No blowing up here as I'lll be sticking to proper combos and have already all the tubes I should ever need. And I have a feeling she's still got a bit of legroom left before anything like that would ever happen, though I'll not be going that route.
 
Mentioning drivers then powers... oh boy all my notes are in reverse, so I guess I'll have to switch the noted order when mentioning them.

Members of this thread have cautioned you about recommending combos that exceed 6.8 watts many times, yet you seem to have total disregard for the strong majority of regular members of this thread who do not want to see uninformed people read your recommendations and not realize that they exceed FA's recommendations. You have promised not to do that, but seem to forget that promise quickly.
 
Even in this last post, you seem to be trying to say that it may not be too serious to exceed manufacturer recommendation because you didn't experience any trouble while you were exceeding it. I don't think FA sets a limit on heater draw just for the fun of it. Many different products (electrical and other types) can survive exceeding manufacturer operating limits for a time, but the stress of such excess over time can lead to real problems.

 

[DecentLevi]

As noted it was an error that I didn't realize and I won't be using that combo anymore. Twas just a brief try and my amp still sings like a beauty

 

[pctazhp]

As noted it was an error that I didn't realize and I won't be using that combo anymore. Twas just a brief try and my amp still sings like a beauty

DL.  I don't give a damn if your Elise sings like a beauty or grunts like a hamster. This is not about what you personally can get away with. It is about consideration for those who visit this thread and can't spend hours or days going back through all the posts to know what is safe and what may cause problems.
 
You say it was a mistake, but you have been asked to carefully check the operating range of combos you recommend. You have frequently professed on HeadFi to have great and special "knowledge" about tubes. Seems that knowledge should include heater current of the tubes you use and recommend.
 
I know you almost always insist on having the last word, so this is all I'll say on this subject today.

 

[connieflyer]

Well, spoken @pctazhp , I think that at this point dl is not listening to friendly advice.  He has constantly pushed the limits, and even though corrected time and again, refuses to adhere to the manufacturers maximum power draw for the heaters. If he doesn't know what the current draw for individual tubes, information is available on-line from many sources, and if all else fails, he could ask for advice on this forum. If I don't know, I ask, no big deal that I don't know everything. I think it is just that he wants to be the first to come out with a new combination to wow us all with his discovery.  He doesn't wait till he knows it is a safe combination before jumping out in front to say how his last find is even better than the established experts, even H1 has repeatedly said to let him try these combos first, to protect your gear, and he would run the info past Lukasz to see what they think.  It is not like you are asking for info and have to wait months to see results.  He is way to impatient, new readers are not likely to back track through this thread for pages trying to find the correct answer, they are going to assume since he has been hanging around here, he knows what he is doing, and in reality, he just does not, or will not, take the time to double check his work.  I feel bad for new folks that have to see this and wonder what is going on with this gear. I believe he should be given this one last warning, and if he does it again, should be banned. My thoughts. 

 

[DecentLevi]

And in what regard is it acceptable to make defamatory statements about another user for a small mishap even after they've already said they will not do it anymore and it had knowledged thr mistske? in fact it was just a small test in the process of rolling a few tubes yesterday, I had edited my post, confirmed nothing untoward resulted in the slightest, and also I am not even going to be getting any more tubes so there's no reason for concern of my doing it again. I was only the 2nd time and for some it can take some practice to learn something. you may want to look at the last page to notice that I have made positive contributions so that you could possibly look at the glass as half-full rather than half empty

 

[connieflyer]

Mainly because you keep on doing the same thing, rolling in tubes without regard for performance specs.  If this was the first time you had done this, than fine, but this is not the first time you have been careless like this. It does not bode well for people to push the envelope of this amp, without regard to the manufacturers specifications. If you caused no "apparent" harm, consider yourself lucky. Will the next person that tries it have the same "luck"? This is an electrical circuit, sure you only put the tubes in for a short time, "your short test", it does not take much time to have a component overload and fail. face it you got lucky.  How many chances do you need before you see, it is your mistake for going outside the parameters of the manufacture, stay inside their recommendations and I have no problem. You already have had one Elise burn out on you, and just because if fits, does not mean it works.

 

[pctazhp]

I don't know if I have posted this before, but I always feel great when I watch it. This morning I'm singing it to my Elise/EL11ST/EL12ST, because this song describes exactly how I am feeling right now as I listen.

 

 

[hypnos1]

  Meanwhile, I have reached the honeymoon phase with my Elise. I am truly in love with her... LOL

 
So - naturally - I am treating her right and bought (thanks to recommendations I got of this marvellous forum and its wonderful members

) some gifts: EL12 spez., EL11s, EL3Ns and EL12Ns.
 
 
Now, the very blunt question (my bank account and I are asking ourselves) is: Is there a good reason to additionally buy the "regular" EL12s?
I mean, do they differ sonically from the EL 12 spez. in a significant way also regarding combining them with the above mentioned tubes?

 
 
 
edit: typo 

 
Well, HP...I think we can safely say you are now a fully paid up member of the "Feliks-Audio Mad Hatters Party" lol!!!

...WELCOME!!!...

(yet another not to heed my dire warnings!!

). But I'm sure your enterprising spirit will be greatly rewarded...fingers crossed!!

...
 
Re. your last sentence, H13 summarises things very well below. Given the slight differences between all these tubes - especially allowing also for different setups! - I suppose it comes down (once again lol!) to which you can get the best $ deal on, and/or just how enthusiastic you want to be!! I personally prefer the 12 'Spezials' over either the standard ST or 12N....in my system & my ears. But I would not say the difference is significant...And then there's the issue of hum that you will need to sort with the Spezials...so a few things to think about...(except it looks like you've already decided LOL!!!...GOOD MAN!!...ENJOY!...).

  I don't know mordy but it would be a very good idea, given how good they can sound.
 
Thinking generally, I appreciate that some of the tubes we find very good for Elise will almost certainly not all be suitable for Euforia, but I've been listening just now to EL12spez powers with EL11 drivers, all RFT's, and I can't imagine how this combination of sweet clarity and huge sound-stage wouldn't suit Euforia too. Would probably sound even better, hard though that is to imagine.
 
I've also been trying to determine what exactly is the difference in sound between the different  manufacturers and shapes of the EL12/EL12N type of tubes and I'm finding it very difficult.
 
For a few days I thought Telefunken and Valvo were a bit warmer than RFT/RWN tubes, today I'm not so sure.
 
Same with the coke bottle ST and straight N's. I originally thought, like most, that the N's were a bit brighter, but, again, now I'm not so sure. Sometimes I think the N's sound warmer.
I'm wondering if it depends on the accompanying driver/ power tubes as well. 
 
So far, I think spez are a little warmer again than the other two, but that will probably change too. 
 
Maybe best not to bother too much about all these differences, they are not big anyway. I'll just enjoy the music as they all sound so good. 

 

 
I agree there don't appear to be significant differences between these EL12s...but who knows what different gear might throw up lol?!

...hopefully, nothing that can't be surmounted...

.
 
These combos could have been made for Euforia....even if they do 'measure' off-piste!!

....
 
"Hard to imagine", H13?....all I can say is - Beware the Wolf!...(mind you, I suspect the difference from Elise could be a bit less with these EL tubes, compared to more 'standard' ones...but even so, I'm pretty sure Euforia takes these 11s and 12s to heights beyond what one could imagine - and probably does indeed increase the gap between the 12 and 12 Spezial lol!!

).

 

[hypnos1]

And in what regard is it acceptable to make defamatory statements about another user for a small mishap even after they've already said they will not do it anymore and it had knowledged thr mistske? in fact it was just a small test in the process of rolling a few tubes yesterday, I had edited my post, confirmed nothing untoward resulted in the slightest, and also I am not even going to be getting any more tubes so there's no reason for concern of my doing it again. I was only the 2nd time and for some it can take some practice to learn something. you may want to look at the last page to notice that I have made positive contributions so that you could possibly look at the glass as half-full rather than half empty

 
Hey DL...I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I simply cannot let go unchallenged your gross understatement of the times you have been corrected regarding statements and 'advice' you have given on this thread. I personally have had to do so multiple times, and has also occasioned several members at least the need to previously report you to the moderators.
 
I very recently pleaded with you to please check your information more carefully before posting, and yet you repeated the same mistakes again...hence the more vociferous comments made by senior members who only have at heart the interests of folks who do not have the same degree of knowledge/experience. It is no wonder that your continual (apparent) refusal to "learn something" when pointed out to you quite clearly stirs frustration amongst a good few concerned members here. Please don't insult all these people in this way...we can't all have such short memories lol!

...and please try to understand our motives are based solely on the protection of others from misinformation that could possibly cause them expensive damage, let alone also be potentially embarrassing for Feliks-Audio.
 
Please try to take these comments as an attempt to help you learn the need for greater caution when putting information out into the Public domain, DL...please...CJ

 

[HOWIE13]

Here's a nice Spanish Dance called 'Andalusia' with some suitable views. Pity the picture isn't better quality but the playing is very good.
 
PS. Just learned that a string musical instrument maker is called a 'Luthier'  I wasn't aware of the word before today. Almost as exciting as discovering a new tube-almost!
 
 
 

 

[UntilThen]

I overslept and miss my 3am appearance here. It's 6:51am now. 

  Hence I miss one daily edition. 

 
Anyhoo, here's the transcript of my conversation with Mrs Xu Ling:-
 
Hi Mrs Xu Ling,

I've a question regarding the EL12 Spez adapters. A lot of my friends on the forum who bought these adapters say that there's a lot of hum due to ground loop. It's like an antenna that can pick up signals very easily. 

Is there anyway to isolate it? Perhaps have it teflon coated.- the wire that goes to the top anode.

Do you have any suggestion?

Regards
The Honourable UntilThen
 
Her reply
 
hi,i know that,only connect sheild wire to Gnd .but nobody like adapter add extra wire.see my old version adapter 
Thanks!
 
...and this is a tiny picture of the old version adapter. That's 2 wires. More Octo***** for you.
 

 
 
What do you think? Any suggestions on how she should do the dun adapter?

 

[HOWIE13]

  I overslept and miss my 3am appearance here. It's 6:51am now. 

  Hence I miss one daily edition. 

 
Anyhoo, here's the transcript of my conversation with Mrs Xu Ling:-
 
Hi Mrs Xu Ling,

I've a question regarding the EL12 Spez adapters. A lot of my friends on the forum who bought these adapters say that there's a lot of hum due to ground loop. It's like an antenna that can pick up signals very easily. 

Is there anyway to isolate it? Perhaps have it teflon coated.- the wire that goes to the top anode.

Do you have any suggestion?

Regards
The Honourable UntilThen
 
Her reply
 
hi,i know that,only connect sheild wire to Gnd .but nobody like adapter add extra wire.see my old version adapter 
Thanks!
 
...and this is a tiny picture of the old version adapter. That's 2 wires. More Octo***** for you.
 

 
 
What do you think? Any suggestions on how she should do the dun adapter?

Thanks UT. You are forgiven missing your daily column.

 
Do you, or anybody else, know what the end of the wire connects to?