[CarbonTi]

I want to get back into listening to music on vinyl. I can pick up a Technics 1200 for not much money. But what do I feed this TT going forward?

My concern is that in the loudness wars today, vinyl ends up being nothing more than the verbatim transfer of the same over-EQ'd, overcompressed master used on the cds bound for Circuit City. For the size of the vinyl LP (non-audiophile) market no preferential treatment is to be expected, but what have head-fiers found to be the real scoop? Is even a compressed modern recording more listenable on LP than cd simply because vinyl takes the edge off? Or is the selection of audiophile offerings on vinyl enough?

What do you folks do to feed the habit? Going to used record shops is an option, but buying used vinyl is a crap shoot, right? Help me get back into LPs - "Just when I thought that I was out they pull me back in."

 

[Herandu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Going to used record shops is an option, but buying used vinyl is a crap shoot, right?

Wrong. As long as you ask the right questions, or handle the product before purchase, you can build up a decent collection for a very small outlay. Then there is the option of asking older family members if they have any vinyl gathering dust that you can have for nothing, or a small fee. You'll be surprised what I have dug up that way.

 

[Chri5peed]

My Dad likes Willie Nelson, wouldn't want his records.


Doesn't exclusively listening to vinyl, with its poor selection, make you fall into a trap. That you'd listen to albums because they're vinyl rather than because of the music?

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif I want to get back into listening to music on vinyl. I can pick up a Technics 1200 for not much money. But what do I feed this TT going forward?

Look at upgrading one of these with a Rega tonearm and you'll have a giant killing deck for a reasonable outlay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif For the size of the vinyl LP (non-audiophile) market no preferential treatment is to be expected, but what have head-fiers found to be the real scoop? Is even a compressed modern recording more listenable on LP than cd simply because vinyl takes the edge off? Or is the selection of audiophile offerings on vinyl enough?

It can vary a lot. Precisely because vinyl is a niche market the quality of new pressings is on the whole higher than any time since the 1960s.

Some modern bands like The White Stripes go to a lot of trouble with vinyl pressings using all analogue mastering. On the whole vinyl mastering has to be done with more care and attention than CD mastering because of the necessary strictures involved in the process.

For getting into 2nd hand records in a big way you should look at investing in a propper vacuum machine. Nitty Gritty make a basic one for a few hundred dollars and these make a huge difference.

 

[Icarium]

There is always quality used vinyl out there. Certainly more titles in vinyl than say.. sacd/dvd-a.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icarium /img/forum/go_quote.gif There is always quality used vinyl out there. Certainly more titles in vinyl than say.. sacd/dvd-a.

Pretty big head-start!

 

[NightWoundsTime]

I have a lot of new vinyl, and it indeed is a bit of a crap-shoot. I have one that the person in charge of the vinyl master didn't apply a "de-esser", thus creating huge sibilance on S sounds. It's Sufjan Stevens' Seven Swans (Sheven Shwans is how it ends up sounding), for the record, if that means anything to you. Sufjan's other albums though are pressed beautifully and packaged extremely well.

The Decemberists put out a long string of great vinyl until they jumped to a big label. I bought The Crane Wife and had to return it, because it was entirely useless.

I have a few that are entirely too hot for CD and get transferred as such for vinyl. Not that they clip, because the mastering always gets done in some form, but you can't save a recording that's compressed from the beginning. For vinyl they just apply more compression... It's generally a good idea to go with more acoustic and sparse music on vinyl, rather than layered and dense music. Unless you hear comments that the vinyl really cleaned things up, which is also known to happen... Umm so yeah that's all to say it's a crapshoot. Despite the problems I've listed I've had extremely good luck, just be a bit choosy going in. Oh and if you're lucky enough to have a local shop with new vinyl buy there. I've saved a lot of headaches being able to return a bad pressing locally, and they're cool with that. They know it's a crapshoot as well and they do their best.

 

[esuko]

I myself am also interested if there is a difference in modern artists record for example.
Rihanna Good Girl Gone Bad CD VS Rihanna Good Girl Gone Bad LP??

 

[goldenratiophi]

Used or new, it all depends. One of my best sounding LPs is a used copy of Aja (1977) I got for $2 at The Exchange, and my worst is The National's Boxer (2007). (Great album, but the amount of noise almost unbearable sometimes. "Stay outSSSSHHHHH super laSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHte tonight SSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHH")

I've generally had very good luck with new vinyl - in fact I think Boxer is the only LP I have where the digital version is preferable IMO.

NightWoundsTime: Thanks for the info about Sufjan - my copy of Illinois shipped yesterday

 

[CarbonTi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif Look at upgrading one of these with a Rega tonearm and you'll have a giant killing deck for a reasonable outlay.

Oh no! Getting pulled in some more by the allure of tweaking the performance envelope! It seems very attractive to get actively immersed in crafting a sound signature for spinning vinyl.

Is the motor/platter/plinth on a 1200 worth sticking a much better tonearm on it? A Rega RB300 is not that expensive, worth going up to a higher spec Rega on this rig? Why not go crazy and stick a SME on it (half-kidding)! DD isn't much used in audiophile TT's but if it spins the exact speed and the cartridge can't pick up the motor noise, what else could you want and why spend more?

As far as my original question, I guess that I'd have to rummage through what is available on vinyl on a case by case basis. I know that White Stripes and P-Tree, for example, have made vinyl offerings, as well as the usual Hoffman remasters. These are well thought of and are high quality. Doesn't help much for building up a collection of classic rock and blues records though. I might check around for sources of used records before I take the plunge, no use in getting a TT that I cannot feed.

So how and where do you folks score your vinyls? I get the feeling this question is like asking about obtaining vacuum tubes or contraband - the "don't ask don't tell" rule applies.

 

[3x331m]

I had good luck with the new 200g Quiex releases. I really like them.

The rest of my records are used. I prefer the 180g version.

 

[goldenratiophi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif So how and where do you folks score your vinyls? I get the feeling this question is like asking about obtaining vacuum tubes or contraband - the "don't ask don't tell" rule applies.

Not at all! My usual procedure for finding vinyl is checking insound.com (great for indie stuff), then musicdirect.com (usually has most major label albums), then the artist's website, then their label's website. Usually one of those places is bound to have it if it exists.

Or if I'm in Cleveland, I just take a trip to one of the many great record stores like Bent Crayon (has EVERYTHING).

Search around, you probably have a good record store somewhere.

 

[memepool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Is the motor/platter/plinth on a 1200 worth sticking a much better tonearm on it? A Rega RB300 is not that expensive, worth going up to a higher spec Rega on this rig? Why not go crazy and stick a SME on it (half-kidding)! DD isn't much used in audiophile TT's but if it spins the exact speed and the cartridge can't pick up the motor noise, what else could you want and why spend more?

The original Technics SL120 was the version of the 1200 which was sold without a tonearm and you usually see these on audiogon fitted with a '70s SME 3009 S2 so it's not that crazy a notion at all. But why bother with an antique when they still make the same model almost unchanged today for a fraction of what it cost then in real terms?

I mentioned the Rega arm because it's the benchmark budget arm but you can find arm mounts being made by a UK company called soundsupports on ebay, precut for SME and Rega patterns. They'll supply a blank one if you ask and you can cut it to any arm pattern you desire.

It was Stuart Wennen in the UK mag Hi-Fi World and http://www.originlive.com/ who started this arm replacement idea a few years back but they are really only going back to what Technics were offering 30 years ago.

In the USA you have KABUSA who make a well regarded off-board powersupply and are also stockists for other UK companies like http://www.isonoe.com/ who specialise in customising professional equipment.

All in all there has recently been a bit of a seachange in audiophile quarters on the question of the merits of drive systems with 1950s idler drives now swapping hands for 5 figure sums. The SL1200 offers a lot for the price of an exotic interconnect and with a bit of tweeking and upgrading can easily compete with any audiphile deck you buy today for a few grand.

Several headfiers have done these upgrades and reported great results. Ssportclay has an Origin Live Silver tonearm on his 1200.

Here is a review of the stock model in the well know Italian audio webzine TNT http://www.tnt-audio.com/sorgenti/te..._sl1200_e.html



Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Doesn't help much for building up a collection of classic rock and blues records though. I might check around for sources of used records before I take the plunge, no use in getting a TT that I cannot feed. So how and where do you folks score your vinyls? I get the feeling this question is like asking about obtaining vacuum tubes or contraband - the "don't ask don't tell" rule applies.

http://www.gemm.com/ is like a storefront of the worlds small record stores and you can find pretty much everything on there. For classic rock and blues check out http://www.classicrecords.com/search.cfm as mentioned above. Their repressings arn't cheap but all the ones I've heard are stunningly good.

 

[ssportclay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CarbonTi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Oh no! Getting pulled in some more by the allure of tweaking the performance envelope! It seems very attractive to get actively immersed in crafting a sound signature for spinning vinyl. Is the motor/platter/plinth on a 1200 worth sticking a much better tonearm on it? A Rega RB300 is not that expensive, worth going up to a higher spec Rega on this rig? Why not go crazy and stick a SME on it (half-kidding)! DD isn't much used in audiophile TT's but if it spins the exact speed and the cartridge can't pick up the motor noise, what else could you want and why spend more? As far as my original question, I guess that I'd have to rummage through what is available on vinyl on a case by case basis. I know that White Stripes and P-Tree, for example, have made vinyl offerings, as well as the usual Hoffman remasters. These are well thought of and are high quality. Doesn't help much for building up a collection of classic rock and blues records though. I might check around for sources of used records before I take the plunge, no use in getting a TT that I cannot feed. So how and where do you folks score your vinyls? I get the feeling this question is like asking about obtaining vacuum tubes or contraband - the "don't ask don't tell" rule applies.

Actually,the Technics 1200 MKII is probably the most affordable hi end new turntable available.The stock 70s vintage tonearm is its greatest shortcoming .The 2nd biggest concern is acoustic vibration from the stock power transformer.The tonearm can be replaced and the addition of a KABUSA PS-1200 regulated power supply will eliminate the acoustic vibration.Mounting an SME V on a Technics 1200 isn't silly at all.I have an Origin Live Silver on mine and the next better grade Encounter is supposed to sound better than the SME V but I have never heard one.I would think that a Technics 1200 with the new Encounter MK3 and KABUSA power supply would probably eat most every turntable out there.It of course wont look a fancy as some of the more expensive turntables but the sound quality will be hard to beat.

 

[CarbonTi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by memepool /img/forum/go_quote.gif http://www.gemm.com/ is like a storefront of the worlds small record stores and you can find pretty much everything on there. For classic rock and blues check out http://www.classicrecords.com/search.cfm as mentioned above. Their repressings arn't cheap but all the ones I've heard are stunningly good.

Thanks for the links to some LP sources. My apprehension on the availability of vinyl is overwrought. Seems vinyl has come back quite a bit from the years when cds were to rule the world. If I can obtain a copy of A Love Supreme, Highway 61 Revisited, Sticky Fingers and Relayer as security blankets the anxiety will be reduced until I can find more. I'll start looking in the 2nd hand shops also - gonna have to learn how to deep clean LP's by hand until I get a vac. I am newly envious of you guys with 100's, if not 1,000's, of LPs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssportclay /img/forum/go_quote.gif I would think that a Technics 1200 with the new Encounter MK3 and KABUSA power supply would probably eat most every turntable out there.It of course wont look a fancy as some of the more expensive turntables but the sound quality will be hard to beat.

I might start with the un-modded 1200, most of the entry-level audiophile-accepted TTs look as cottage industry manufactured. Of course, some of the high-end stuff is beautiful industrial art but at this point I only want to pay for the music part. But pragmatism might dictate something like an entry-level Rega as it will be easier to sell later if necessary. Gonna need a phono preamp too.

When the wife and kids find out I want to spin vinyl, they'll probably wonder why the fuss and offer to loan me an iPods