[flyingicarus]

 I have a pair of excellent standmount speakers, a nice Nakamichi receiver and using an Acer laptop as a music server (mediamonkey as the software). I tried the original Audioquest Dragonfly, a Micromega MyDAC and lastly an NAD  D 1050 dac. I could not detect any significant difference sonic-wise between any of these dacs and the output from the headphone jack. The Acer laptop uses a Realtek chip which theoretically should be worse sounding than any of the dacs I tried using speakers and not headphones but there was no difference which truly surprised me (no hiss or warbles or jitter issues seem to arise). I suppose it could be that the headphone output using the internal dac is adequate and up to par compared to these dacs i tried. Is it worth trying another dac to really get a sound improvement?






 
 

---

 

 

[stereoshift]

Have you tried to make the same comparison using headphones?
I was using iMac > AKG Q701's for some time until I inherited an old Harman Kardon AV reciever with 24/192 DAC.
Comparing the DAC's only I can hear very subtle improvement in detail, however much concentration is needed for me to hear the difference which does not equate to normal listening sessions.
But the DAC is only one part of the sound chain.

 

[PurpleAngel]

   I have a pair of excellent standmount speakers, a nice Nakamichi receiver and using an Acer laptop as a music server (Mediamonkey as the software). I tried the original Audioquest Dragonfly, a Micromega MyDAC and lastly an NAD  D 1050 DAC. I could not detect any significant difference sonic-wise between any of these DACs and the output from the headphone jack. The Acer laptop uses a Realtek chip which theoretically should be worse sounding than any of the DACs I tried using speakers and not headphones but there was no difference which truly surprised me (no hiss or warbles or jitter issues seem to arise). I suppose it could be that the headphone output using the internal DAC is adequate and up to par compared to these DACs i tried. Is it worth trying another DAC to really get a sound improvement?

 
Right now it would seem it's not worth it to try a different DAC.
 
Guess there is a (very) small chance that the Windows OS or MediaMonkey is not feeding the best possible digital audio signal to the external DACs?
Did you try audio tests using FLAC audio files?

 

[flyingicarus]

Thanks very much for your replies. I am using flac files and also tried using headphones instead of speakers which produced the same results although the headphones are not 'audiophile' grade - more for monitor use being flat FR. I also tried comparing the headphone output from the laptop using the flac files to a CD (not a copy) using a Nakamichi CD Player 2 which is older but supposedly has a very good Burr Brown DAC chip and again could not detect any significant sonic differences.  I thought I would have to go up to a more expensive Schiit Multi bit or the like although might also find the same prior results. It seems strange since most suggest that DAC chips on laptops are poor quality and even with a Dragonfly there should be a noticeable difference.

 

[ProtegeManiac]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyingicarus /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Thanks very much for your replies. I am using flac files and also tried using headphones instead of speakers which produced the same results although the headphones are not 'audiophile' grade - more for monitor use being flat FR.

 

The headphone's response isn't really the problem nor key feature here but the sensitivity and maybe the impedance. if the sensitivity is low enough that would force you to crank up whatever you're using, at which point, some equipment will pile on distortion and noise faster than others. If the impedance is too high the output is lower, thus also forcing to crank it up if the sensitivity isn't high enough to match (or in the case of, say, iPods, the output at 300ohms is just too low that moderate to loud volume on an HD600 is already obviously distorted). If the impedance is too low and whatever you have it plugged into like the laptop or in some cases even some amplifiers, then that will result in lower damping factor that makes bass looser and can vary if it boosts the bass or makes it sound like a tin can.

 

For the most part none of these seem to be an issue with your headphone at your listening level so just keep the set-up (and your load, if you move these around) as simple as possible.

 

[Audiophilic10]

Hello Flyingicarus
I'm glad that you share your experience. Could it be Acer laptops have a quite competent headphone output? Don't know, but I have a cheap Acer laptop, about 6 years old using an unidentified Realtek chip and I don't find anything wrong listening to FLAC and WAV files with 300 ohm headphones... volume is plenty, sound is good, never had any strange noises, interferences people talk about... so even though I'm curious about experimenting with external DACs and amps I'm still reluctant about spending money to get no clear improvements...

 

[theveterans]

  Hello Flyingicarus
I'm glad that you share your experience. Could it be Acer laptops have a quite competent headphone output? Don't know, but I have a cheap Acer laptop, about 6 years old using an unidentified Realtek chip and I don't find anything wrong listening to FLAC and WAV files with 300 ohm headphones... volume is plenty, sound is good, never had any strange noises, interferences people talk about... so even though I'm curious about experimenting with external DACs and amps I'm still reluctant about spending money to get no clear improvements...

 
Recent on-board sound is almost as good as external DACs costing around $100. IMO you need to spend at least $500 on DACs and amps to see clear improvements and even then it's about 10 - 20% improvement. The biggest change is of course upgrading headphones. When you listen to a external DAC and amp, you always focus on how easy it is to hear different instruments on a busy chorus and how the voices and instruments are placed in space. That's where most of difference between on-board and a good external DAC lies. The tonality is almost the same so your headphones won't magically turn in to a completely different headphone with a DAC or amp upgrades.
 
If you have an AV receiver with headphone out at your home, you can always A/B between your Acer laptop to hear differences.

 

[PurpleAngel]

  Hello Flyingicarus
I'm glad that you share your experience. Could it be Acer laptops have a quite competent headphone output? Don't know, but I have a cheap Acer laptop, about 6 years old using an unidentified Realtek chip and I don't find anything wrong listening to FLAC and WAV files with 300 ohm headphones... volume is plenty, sound is good, never had any strange noises, interferences people talk about... so even though I'm curious about experimenting with external DACs and amps I'm still reluctant about spending money to get no clear improvements...

 
You might consider to at least get a Schiit Fulla 2.

 

[Audiophilic10]

Thanks all for the input. I know at some point I'll end up trying some external DAC or amp just to be sure! unfortunately as the laptop is not my main music listening source I don't think I'll be able to strech budget beyond 100-150