[pomegranate]

Well, having had pretty much "we don't know" back from Toshiba UK about the Gigabeat G-20, and still not being able to get over the bulk and weight of the Zen NX and the price and looks of the iHP-120, I've taken a rather drastic decision. I'm going to re-rip all of my cds into MP3 or AAC and convert those files I don't have the CDs for, already having approx 5000 songs in WMA, which was my main sticking point in not gettting an iPod straight off. I've got a couple of questions for the experts here.

1. What control does the iPod have over file rights? If, hypothetically, I chose in the future to to become a criminal and rip a CD that I didn't own to my hard drive, or download an MP3 I didn't have rights to play, how does the iPod control this? Does it stop you at all?

2. What format should I rip in? I understand that (anti-Microsoft vitriol aside) MP3 isn't as space-efficient as WMA. I've been ripping my CDs into WMA at 64kbps and am more than happy with the audio quality. Am I right in thinking that the equivalent bit rate in MP3 for the same quality is 128kbps? What is the equivalent bit rate for the same sound quality for AAC? Any comments on file types would be appreciated. Is AAC worth bothering with?

cheers in advance
P

 

[blessingx]

Not an expert, but ...

The iPod's only two rights issues are- transferring files back to your computer (easily overcome by third party, sometime free, software), and potentially iTMS purchased files (like Napster, BuyMusic, etc. there are restrictions). For files you rip yourself in MP3 or AAC (or download), there isn't this restriction. Your 64 WMA encoding seems vastly over compressed though, even with average phones. It is probably similar to 128 FhG/Blade CBR MP3, but even LAME ABR 128 is probably better, though. Why are you compressing so drastically? Double that is even pushing it (128 WMA being similar to 160 CBR MP3). I'd say 128 AAC (~ 192 CBR FhG, 160 ABR LAME) is the limit. I'd recommend a minimum of 160 QT AAC or LAME MP3 -apn/aps -Y as the starting point and move up if needed. Maybe you can make some assumptions about WMA versus AAC versus MP3 from this 64 kbps test, but seriously reconsider your bitrate. AAC (low complexity) is better than WMA (and similar to WMA PRO), but not at these extremely low bitrates. There's also Ogg to consider depending on your future portable and its support. Ogg and AAC, at this point, look the way to go. MP3 will hang around. WMA PRO may take off, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[Musicfan123]

I think CNET did a preliminary review with the Toshiba unit. If memory serves, they weren't impressed.

 

[pomegranate]

Thanks for your detailed advice, blessingx. To answer your question re my WMA bit rate, I'm not too sure why I encode(d!) at 64kbps. I think it may be that WMP had that as the default, or perhaps indicated that it would cd-quality equivalent. To be honest, whilst I don't claim to be any kind of audiophile, I've no complaints about the sound quality, listening using WMP through a Creative four-speak sound system with SB Live card. That said, I've never played any cds burned from my wmas on a cd player that would show up audio deficencies, and I very rarely play CDs using my computer, just rip them straight away, so I don't know what pristine audio sounds like on my Creative system. I hope you can see why I might not notice poor audio quality. I've never listened to any kind of compressed digital audio on a portable either.

I think I understand your advice re codecs, didn't realise there were so many variants. If you would recommend MP3 Pro, Lame and HE AAC? What can I use to rip using these, do you know if iTunes supports them?
I've just been double-checking the spec on Apple and it appears that for some reason using the iPod on PC only supports MP3, MP3 VBR, WAV and Audible. http://www.apple.com/ipod/specs.html
Does this sound right to you? In this case, does it mean I would only have the sensible choice of using high-bitrate standard MP3?

Thanks for your patience!

 

[blessingx]

MP3Pro and HE AAC are only for very low bitrates (like your 64 kbps files). MP3Pro hasn't gained any steam as not many license it (plus it is limited to 96 kbps). HE AAC is gaining support, but it too ends in lower bitrates. In most cases LC (low complexity) AAC takes over above. Some are trying to combine using HE for low and LC for mid to high bitrates. MP3 doesn't do extremely well at the low bitrates either and in fact older encoders like FhG do better than the newer LAME in this range (but not others). Again, even with your setup, I'd move away from these lower rates for anything but audiobooks or speech recordings. Plus neither MP3Pro or HE AAC is supported on many (or any in HE AAC's case) portables as for as I know.

The Apple site is outdated. One of the advantages of iTunes for Windows is its (and the iPod's) support for AAC. In fact AAC was supported before, it was just difficult to get the files on it. And files you purchase on the iTunes Music Store are AAC for instance. They're made to sell iPods!

If you buy an iPod and you want decent sound you're going to have to go with LAME MP3's or AAC (LC). You can of course use WAV/AIFF's, but that will take up a lot of space and will likely have an affect on battery life. If you go with another portable (say the iRiver iHP-100/150) you may also have the possibility of Ogg's, through would lose AAC... it's a tradeoff. With the iPod it's probably AAC with iTunes (though there are other options like Nero), or MP3 with one of the progs that uses LAME. With the latter many prefer EAC, CDex, or dBpowerAMP. Try 160-192 AAC or "--alt-preset fast standard" with LAME, I see if you're happy. As your phones get better the requirements increase. 224 AAC is my default now. One thing, going back and encoding a CD collection sucks, so go as high as you think you'll need anytime soon. You may find this site interesting. Keep in mind he's comparing AAC against iTunes modified FhG encorder, not LAME. Still good info if you're considering buying an iPod or using AAC.

 

[pomegranate]

OK that is me entirely reassured and clued up (I think). It did seem a little odd that iTunes for Windows defaults to ripping in AAC but the site didn't seem to corroborate this. Just had to put my mind at ease. Thanks a lot for your time, blessingx. You have assistend in the creation a (hopefully soon-to-be-owning) iPod devotee.

Cheers
P