[moose]

Quote:

...does that mean that the occlusion effect will or will not take place with the ER-4S's.

nope. (alright, i'm not Mr. Wilson, but at least it's been my experience that the occlusion effect is alive and well. I like to sing along. It ain't pretty.)

 

[Matt]

...I almost want to say it's a deal-killer, that not being able to comfortably sing along. Erg...what to do, what to do...

Well, I'll post my impressions when I get them.

Best,
Matt

 

[d_wilson]

With an occluded (plugged) ear you need to get a deep seal (at or beyond second bend in the ear canal). Because of the stem of the ER-4 I don't think you can get a deep enough seal. You might get close with the foam eartips.

THe only way to get a seal that deep is with custom earmolds, if you can get them made correctly.

Don Wilson
Etymotic Reseach

 

[kelly]

Quote:

Originally posted by d_wilson With an occluded (plugged) ear you need to get a deep seal (at or beyond second bend in the ear canal). Because of the stem of the ER-4 I don't think you can get a deep enough seal. You might get close with the foam eartips. THe only way to get a seal that deep is with custom earmolds, if you can get them made correctly. Don Wilson Etymotic Reseach

Let me get this straight. You're saying if the seal is deep enough with the ER-4, the occlusion effect (ie, pounding sensation/sound when walking) will be gone?

If so this still doesn't solve Matt's issue of wanting to sing along. Would it be possible to cram a filter from one of the ER-20s into the same plug as an ER-4 so that you could hear a refuced amount of evenly attenuated outside noise?

 

[moose]

kelly-
I believe that the thumping that one hears while walking is the result of bone resonance and would not be helped by a deeper seal. When walking, the sound of your foot hitting the ground is transmitted via your bones and is heard in your ears (because they are occluded). I don't think that there is any remedy for this other than to sit down (or crawl lightly down the street).
I believe that you are right, however, in saying that a deep seal would reduce your susceptibility to the occlusion effect.
Please correct me if I'm mistaken!
-M.

 

[d_wilson]

The ER-20 is a controlled vent. It's not quite that simple, but basically it is a 2mm hole which is large enough to let the sound pressure created from your own voice escape through it. If you add a 2mm hole to the ER-4, you have a leak, which lets the bass escape.

I don't think many people get a seal with the first flange of the white eartip. The second and third flanges are over the stem which doesn't turn corners very well.


Quote:

Let me get this straight. You're saying if the seal is deep enough with the ER-4, the occlusion effect (ie, pounding sensation/sound when walking) will be gone?

Actually the sound of your own voice, and chewing, etc will be reduced to the point of having nothing in your ears. I will see if I can get the recordings converted to a web friendly format. The sound produced in your own ears with them blocked can be quite high. It is worse for certain vowels like "EEEEE". This is the number one complaint with hearing aids, and there is a lot of research in this area.

Try saying "EEEEE" while alternately holding your fingers over your ear canals, it is quite dramatic. Chewing something crunchy like Doritos also works well.


Don Wilson
Etymotic Research

 

[Mr.PD]

So, if you don't think a deep enough seal can ba achieved with the ER-4, how can the short ER-6 possibly be adequate? I have the ER-6 and I am having a very hard time keeping them sealed. I have had them so deep that there is barely enough sticking out to get a hold on when I want to remove them. They still won't stay sealed. My canals are rather large in diameter. I think I need bigger tips. I am trying to figure out how to modify the tips that came with the phones while waiting for the new foam tips to become available.

 

[d_wilson]

Mr. PD

You don't need a deep seal to get good sound, just to sing along with without hearing your own voice.

The foam eartips are just waiting a final design review, possibly today.

http://www.etymotic.com/search/acces...number=ER6-14F


Don Wilson
Etymotic Research

 

[Suedama]

Don: It's reassuring to see that you are actively addressing the questions posed by Ety owners. I have the ER4P (with the 4S adaptor from fixup.com) and I don't seem to have any issues with proper seal. Nor do I sing along since the sound of my voice, although pleasant to me, provokes extreme hostility in my home from others with a higher sense of aesthetics.

My issue is with the cord. What are the benefits of having a cord that is so highly sensitive to tranmitted sound? I own many other headphones and this problem seems to be unique to the Etys. If there is a design trade off involved I would like knowling what the upside is before I proceed with getting a replacement cord.

 

[d_wilson]

suedama,

You think I was trying to add mechanical noise?

It is a product of having something seal in your ears. With open earbuds this is not an issue.

You can limit the amount of movement ot the earphone by wraping the cale over your earlobe.

Reducing the mass of the connector and the cable also helps. The cable by fixup which presses against your cheek will also help if you can stand the annoyance.

Don Wilson
Etymotic Research

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally posted by d_wilson Reducing the mass of the connector and the cable also helps. The cable by fixup which presses against your cheek will also help if you can stand the annoyance.

Don, I use the fixup.com cable with the Comply tips. The cable does not touch my cheeks, and there is essentially no microphonic problem at all. The Etys have never sounded better nor been more comfortable.

 

[Suedama]

Don: Thanks for the reply. You've really piqued my interest in this cable subject. It sound from what you are saying that the transmitted noise is a function of the earplug design and that the transmitted noise would be a problem no matter what cable was used. Did I interpret that correctly? This seems to be somewhat at odds with the experience reported by Spad and others. In addition, I know that fixup.com represents that its replacement cable eliminates most of this noise.

(No, I didn't really think you designed the extra noise into the Etys.)

 

[kelly]

Is the fixup cable stiffer near the drivers?

 

[Matt]

Here are my perfect pair of Etys:

1. Greatly reduced cord microphony with either no sound compromise or a sound enhancement

2. Hard-wired 1/4" plug (make the P.O.S. portable connecter the adapted one!)

3. Somewhat longer cord (maybe a foot or some small amount more)

4. Any sort of driver enhancements that Mr. Wilson may have up his sleeve.

Ahhhh...heaven.

To my ears, Etys soundly thrash any other cans overall for the widest variety of music, except for the above issues. I guess you might say that makes me a "midrange"-lover, but they are balanced-sounding to me, very much so, and I love that.

- Matt

 

[shivohum]

Quote:

To my ears, Etys soundly thrash any other cans overall for the widest variety of music, except for the above issues.

I thought you disliked them because they lacked "character." Is that no longer the case?