[Publius]

After doing quite a lot of ABX testing on low levels of harmonic distortion, with my ER-4Ss and ATH-A900s - both of which I am an enthusiastic supporter of and have owned them for around 5 years - I've found that the A900s eat the Etys for breakfast when it comes to being able to resolve smaller differences of distortion. Off the cuff, I'd say the A900 it about an order of magnitude more resolving. With synthetic tests, it's not at all subtle.

In other words, the infamous Headroom charts are 100% accurate when they say the Etys have crummy distortion numbers.

I partially corroborated this a few years ago when I could ABX absolute polarity differences on my Etys far more easily than I could on my ATs. That's just a dead giveaway that the Etys have larger amounts of even order distortion at high volumes.

I'm only ranting on the Etys because they're the only balanced armature headphone I own (with the exception of the Livewires, which I refuse to believe are actually headphones). I fully expect all other balanced armature IEMs to suffer the same issues.

I love my Etys, and I will continue to use them as my primary phone because, honestly, the noise rejection is more important than the high distortion 99% of the time. And I will continue to promote them for the same reasons. But they are pretty much useless for any really detailed critical listening.

 

[GreatDane]

Wow. The A900 must sound really good then. My ER4 has beaten DT-880, HD 650 & K240M for highest level of detail for critiquing amps and recordings. Perhaps this distortion level is not high enough to matter...to me anyway.

 

[antonyfirst]

Sorry, what do you mean by ABX testing? Head to head comparison using your ears?

 

[Taikero]

I have more than a sneaking suspicion this is caused by the ER4's crummy cable.

 

[Publius]

It's absolutely inaudible with rock and electronic, but with classical, I have been noticing a lot of intermodulation with the Etys with solo strings. But I never really looked more deeply into that, especially because a lot of that is going to be inside the ear (I hear intermodulation in live acoustic performances too...) Next time I hear it I'll fire up the A900s and see how different they sound.

As far as amps and recordings are concerned, what this most importantly means is that you shouldn't use Etys for evaluating tube amps. There are plenty of other things you can use the Etys for critically - as long as they are not adversely affected by harmonic distortion, especially even order harmonic distortion.

 

[Publius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by antonyfirst /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry, what do you mean by ABX testing? Head to head comparison using your ears?

I've been doing some blind tests in foobar2000 with some distortion simulation applied. I'm not touching on the larger questions of blind testing, all I'm saying is that I've been doing a lot of critical listening lately on this specific topic.

 

[Publius]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taikero /img/forum/go_quote.gif I have more than a sneaking suspicion this is caused by the ER4's crummy cable.

Highly unlikely - from an engineering standpoint, I could much more easily see the balanced armatures as being the culprits. We're talking many percents of harmonic distortion here, for several orders. No cable is capable of that.

 

[Taikero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's absolutely inaudible with rock and electronic, but with classical, I have been noticing a lot of intermodulation with the Etys with solo strings. But I never really looked more deeply into that, especially because a lot of that is going to be inside the ear (I hear intermodulation in live acoustic performances too...) Next time I hear it I'll fire up the A900s and see how different they sound. As far as amps and recordings are concerned, what this most importantly means is that you shouldn't use Etys for evaluating tube amps. There are plenty of other things you can use the Etys for critically - as long as they are not adversely affected by harmonic distortion, especially even order harmonic distortion.

If you hear intermodulation in real live performances, wouldn't the Ety be more accurately representing what you're "supposed" to hear?

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif It's absolutely inaudible with rock and electronic, but with classical, I have been noticing a lot of intermodulation with the Etys with solo strings. But I never really looked more deeply into that, especially because a lot of that is going to be inside the ear (I hear intermodulation in live acoustic performances too...) Next time I hear it I'll fire up the A900s and see how different they sound. As far as amps and recordings are concerned, what this most importantly means is that you shouldn't use Etys for evaluating tube amps. There are plenty of other things you can use the Etys for critically - as long as they are not adversely affected by harmonic distortion, especially even order harmonic distortion.

Agreed - in most cases it isn't an issue, but it is a characteristic of these IEMs

 

[Taikero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius /img/forum/go_quote.gif Highly unlikely - from an engineering standpoint, I could much more easily see the balanced armatures as being the culprits. We're talking many percents of harmonic distortion here, for several orders. No cable is capable of that.

I disagree, especially considering the spliced mess that the ER4 cable is. It's an absolute disgrace.

Just take a look at this thread to see what a proper recabling can do for the ER4P/S (made this guy sell off his GS-1000 and soon to sell off his L3000 I think): http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/wor...-er4-p-391729/

 

[antonyfirst]

Takeiro, you two guys aren't talking about the same thing in my opinion.

 

[oak3x]

How do you compare the Livewires to the Ety ER4's?

 

[mvw2]

People don't actually mind some distortion. Sometime's it's even preferred.

I'm curious why you feel the ER4S actually has high distortion. I ask because test data that I have run across show pretty low distortion values. There's a website that did specifically test the ER4, but I can't find it at the moment. I'll post it when I do find it again. There's another that tested the ER6i though that I can find at the moment:
Etymotic 6isolator Headphones Review - In-Ear - Reviews of Headphones and Headphone Ratings - HeadphoneInfo.com

I did look at Headroom's charts too. They have their little comparison too, but I'd like to see more headphones to pick from. When looking at the graphs, you also need to understand how much THD is actually shown. For example 1% THD is -40dB. Even with the peaks shown, the ER4S is still under 1% THD short 2 points.

Instead, I'm curious if it's simply the presentation of sound that you are simply labeling as distortion. Or maybe it's a byproduct of how the headphone is being used, i.e. too loud or underpowered or some other factor.

I will agree the ER4S isn't as dynamic as some other headphones. They have a more even sound as well as a sound with a more drawn out attack and decay. Something with a shorter, crisper note will come across sounding cleaner, more detailed, less distorted. However, the question isn't a matter of sound but a matter of distortion. For this, one must ask if the sound heard is more or less indicative of the original source.

 

[shigzeo]

last post is true. distortion is often something people talk about as negative but really like. this is true with many daps that are popular on headfi for their sound 'quality'.

 

[panda]

are you sure it's not showing the distortion in your setup and/or recordings? the 4s is the most detailed fone out of anything ive tried including stax sr007 and sony sa5k.